Those were the same lines I was thinking, GBob. Considering the most important factors objectively in determining a long lasting marriage are the higher frequency of church attendance and the greater level of importance the subjects put down as of their religion.
Originally posted by josephw Well, I'm not an atheist, but, based on what I hear from atheist, I would imagine that they would be living in paradise. They would live forever because they would have access to the tree of life, and there would be no god to kill them or kill each other over.
Originally posted by twhitehead Stop lying, you did not hear that from atheists, you made it up.
You're right. I've never heard an atheist say that most wars are started by religious people killing in the name of God. Nor have I ever heard it said that God is a murderer.
Originally posted by Of Ants and Imps Those were the same lines I was thinking, GBob. Considering the most important factors objectively in determining a long lasting marriage are the higher frequency of church attendance and the greater level of importance the subjects put down as of their religion.
Marriage is one of four divine establishments (designed to protect and perpetuate the human race); and under attack.
Originally posted by twhitehead No need to imagine it. Just go to Sweden.
I said, "... wherever they found it." Not just Sweden. Making such a society in Sweden only hasn't prevented any wars that I know of. A perfect society is pretty useless to mankind if it's not the whole planet getting involved.
Originally posted by Suzianne I said, "... wherever they found it." Not just Sweden. Making such a society in Sweden only hasn't prevented any wars that I know of. A perfect society is pretty useless to mankind if it's not the whole planet getting involved.
I actually have no idea how many wars Sweden has prevented - I don't buy your claim that it hasn't prevented any. How would you know?
I also don't buy your claim that advances in society are useless until the whole planets involved. If you buy into that you might as well give up on all political systems / societies etc as they are all useless.
I also don't think anyone claimed that an absence of religion would result in a perfect society.
Originally posted by Suzianne So are you saying that NO marriages are happy? I.e., that all marriages either end in divorce or stay together yet unhappy?
You're right, I got it wrong. That is certainly not what I intended to imply. I guess to estimate how many unhappy couples there are we need to compare divorce rates in societies where there isn't strong social pressure to remain married and societies where there is, and find the difference.
I know a few people who would not only disagree, but resent that insinuation bitterly. I don't think they should 'resent it bitterly'. They should just laugh at my foolishness (if that was really the view I held). They really shouldn't care less what other people think. Just as I laugh at GBs belief that all marriages should be maintained despite unhappiness. I will only resent him if he fights for or manages to pass any laws preventing divorce - or, opposes gay rights to marriage.
Originally posted by twhitehead I actually have no idea how many wars Sweden has prevented - I don't buy your claim that it hasn't prevented any. How would you know?
I also don't buy your claim that advances in society are useless until the whole planets involved. If you buy into that you might as well give up on all political systems / societies etc as they are all useless.
Sweden has prevented wars? Wow, you really do live a pipe dream. Let me help you out here. Zero. That's how many.
A society (even a perfect one) saying to others, "I've got mine, screw you" really IS pretty useless to the rest of the globe.
Originally posted by twhitehead I know a few people who would not only disagree, but resent that insinuation bitterly.
I don't think they should 'resent it bitterly'. They should just laugh at my foolishness (if that was really the view I held). They really shouldn't care less what other people think. Just as I laugh at GBs belief that all marriages should be maintained despite unhappi ...[text shortened]... fights for or manages to pass any laws preventing divorce - or, opposes gay rights to marriage.
If you had a happy marriage and someone came up to you and said, "yeah, right... You are a LIAR, because I know all marriages are unhappy," how would that make you feel? Might one not resent that?
Originally posted by Suzianne Sweden has prevented wars? Wow, you really do live a pipe dream. Let me help you out here. Zero. That's how many.
You said that already. But how do you know that?
A society (even a perfect one) saying to others, "I've got mine, screw you" really IS pretty useless to the rest of the globe. Once again, what makes you think Swedes are like that? And even if it was, being useless to the rest of the globe is not the same as being useless. In Zambia, we are not particularly useful to the rest of the globe except for allowing them to steal our copper and generally exploit us, but that doesn't stop us trying to improve our society for our own benefit.
Originally posted by Suzianne If you had a happy marriage and someone came up to you and said, "yeah, right... You are a LIAR, because I know all marriages are unhappy," how would that make you feel? Might one not resent that?
Maybe I would. I guess that although it shouldn't bother them too much, it still might. So I'll concede that you are right on that one.
Originally posted by Suzianne Sweden has prevented wars? Wow, you really do live a pipe dream. Let me help you out here. Zero. That's how many.
Lets try and come up with a way to estimate it. Suppose we count how many countries have had wars in the last 50 years and how many haven't we would know what the average 'war rate' was. Could we then conclude that any country bellow the average number of wars is doing something right that is preventing wars? Or are wars totally random and without cause or prevention?
16 Feb '14 03:31
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