Originally posted by twhitehead
Finally, he comes clean and says what he really wanted to say, not what he originally asked. A bit of honesty saves us all a lot of time.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
"What would the world look like if all people were atheists?"
"I am interested in how atheists would see the world if there was no mention of any God or gods? Would it be possible? Is it your opinion the world would be a better place? If so, in what way? What would you speak against then? Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception. The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend. I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow." http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9514
Merely a sidebar. My apology if you found it intrusive.
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Originally posted by Great King RatOriginally posted by Grampy Bobby
This is happening more and more in quite a few European countries. You think there's more and more sorrow in The Netherlands for instance?
"The 8 best countries to be an atheist" (August 29, 2012)
"In many places around the world, this is an unprecedented era of freedom and social acceptance for non-believers. AMANDA MARCOTTE, ALTERNET. A lot of non-believer writers and activists focus, rightly, on the continuing lack of acceptance in many societies and nations of those who profess no belief in religion. Keeping an eye on what’s not working is the first step toward making improvements. Still, in many places around the world, this is an unprecedented era for non-believers of freedom and social acceptance. In the spirit of celebrating the amount of progress secularism has made around the world, here’s a list of eight of the best countries in which to be a non-believer.
1) Czech Republic. Many former communist nations saw their populations eagerly run back to the forbidden religions as soon as they were free to do so, demonstrating that the least effective way to spread atheism around is by mandate. The Czech Republic hasn’t seen any such return to religion, however; only 21% of its citizens consider religion an important part of their daily lives. They seem to be hanging on to secularism for roughly the same reason that they do pretty well in international sports competitions. Unlike most Eastern European nations, the Czech Republic rates high on the United Nation’s Human Development Report. It hasn’t been riddled by the corruption and authoritarian attitudes that dominate other former communist nations, such as Russia. A mountain of evidence demonstrates that stable, egalitarian economies correlate strongly with higher rates of atheism. It seems that the government’s demonstration of faith in its people and commitment to their well-being has gone a long way towards keeping the citizens from rekindling religious faith, whereas in places like Russia, where citizens are more desperate, looking to God for answers perhaps becomes more appealing.
2) Sweden & 3) Denmark. It might not seem immediately obvious why high numbers of non-believers in a country would make life better for atheists, but the examples of Sweden and Denmark show why this is true. When non-belief or even outright atheism is widespread, atheists can go about their lives free from the fear that their lack of belief will cause people to mistrust, hate, or even discriminate against them. These two countries, in which only 17% and 18%, respectively, of the population consider religion important, have become icons of secularist values to the rest of the world. Phil Zuckerman, a sociologist from Pitzer College in Claremont, Calif., spent a little more than a year talking to citizens to find out why. He discovered that your average Danish or Swedish citizen simply doesn’t think much about religion; in these two cultures, religion has largely been relegated to a ceremonial role. For the typical atheist who likes to have a Christmas tree without the burden of having to believe in the Virgin Birth, the Danish and Swedish attitude towards religion should fit like a cozy sweater. 4) Austria; 5) France; 6) Norway; 7) Australia; 8) Japan."
http://www.salon.com/2012/08/29/eight_of_the_best_countries_to_be_an_atheist/
Apparently The Netherlands isn't in the top tier; and, I think, it's 11th Highest in divorces.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"People Statistics > Divorces per 100 marriages (most recent) by country"
DEFINITION: Number of divorces per 100 marriages. Data for 2000.
"# 1 Belgium: 59.8 divorces per 100 marriage
(# 2) Sweden: 53.9 divorces per 100 marriage
(# 3) Czech Republic: 53.7 divorces per 100 marriage
# 4 Finland: 53.2 divorces per 100 marriage
# 5 Hungary: 49.9 divorces per 100 marriage
(# 6) Austria: 49.8 divorces per 100 marriage
# 7 Luxembourg: 48 divorces per 100 marriage
# 8 New Zealand: 47.1 divorces per 100 marriage
(# 9) Australia: 46 divorces per 100 marriage
(# 10) Norway: 39.7 divorces per 100 marriage
# 11 Netherlands: 39.3 divorces per 100 marriage
(# 12) Denmark: 37.5 divorces per 100 marriage"
HTTP://WWW.NATIONMASTER.COM/GRAPH/PEO_DIV_PER_100_MAR-PEOPLE-DIVORCES-PER-100-MARRIAGES
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYou may want to cross reference this list with the list of happiest and saddest countries is the world, GB.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"People Statistics > Divorces per 100 marriages (most recent) by country"
DEFINITION: Number of divorces per 100 marriages. Data for 2000.
"# 1 Belgium: 59.8 divorces per 100 marriage
(# 2) Sweden: 53.9 divorces per 100 marriage
(# 3) Czech Republic: 53.7 divorces per 100 ...[text shortened]... e"
HTTP://WWW.NATIONMASTER.COM/GRAPH/PEO_DIV_PER_100_MAR-PEOPLE-DIVORCES-PER-100-MARRIAGES[/b]
http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/
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Originally posted by Great King Rat"So who’s the happiest? As has been the case the past five years, that distinction goes to countries that enjoy peace, freedom, good healthcare, quality education, a functioning political system and plenty of opportunity: Norway, Sweden, Canada and New Zealand. The saddest, least prosperous? War-ravaged countries under the thumb of greedy despots and theocrats, where freedom of expression is limited, education nonexistent, violence the norm: Chad, Congo, Central African Republic, Afghanistan and Yemen." Thank you.
You may want to cross reference this list with the list of happiest and saddest countries is the world, GB.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/
_________________________________
"People Statistics > Divorces per 100 marriages (most recent) by country"
DEFINITION: Number of divorces per 100 marriages. Data for 2000.
"# 1 Belgium: 59.8 divorces per 100 marriage
(# 2) Sweden: 53.9 divorces per 100 marriage
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI'm not sure what your point is with this. Are you saying that the more religious a country is, the more difficult it becomes for a non-religious person to be who he wants to be?
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"The 8 best countries to be an atheist" (August 29, 2012)
"In many places around the world, this is an unprecedented era of freedom and social acceptance for non-believers. AMANDA MARCOTTE, ALTERNET. A lot of non-believer writers and activists focus, rightly, on the continuing lack of acceptance in ma ...[text shortened]...
Apparently The Netherlands isn't in the top tier; and, I think, it's 11th Highest in divorces.[/b]
If so, does that reflect well on religion you think?
As to why The Netherlands is not in this list, I couldn't tell you.
Originally posted by Great King RatOriginally posted by Grampy Bobby
I'm not sure what your point is with this. Are you saying that the more religious a country is, the more difficult it becomes for a non-religious person to be who he wants to be?
If so, does that reflect well on religion you think?
As to why The Netherlands is not in this list, I couldn't tell you.
Imagine a world totally populated by men and women without a glimmer of hope, without Christ,
without eternal life sharing His happiness: what loneliness; what a waste; what sorrow...
Originally posted by Great King Rat
I'm not sure what your point is with this. Are you saying that the more religious a country is, the more difficult it becomes for a non-religious person to be who he wants to be?
If so, does that reflect well on religion you think?
As to why The Netherlands is not in this list, I couldn't tell you.
___________________________________
GKR, there really wasn't any on topic point to be made. Sitting here late at night fatigued I began thinking aloud about many of you; momentarily my online etiquette which respects original posts was overcome by compassion and melancholoy.
Originally posted by SuzianneTo be fair, the Swedes did a bang up job fighting off Hitler.
Sweden has prevented wars? Wow, you really do live a pipe dream. Let me help you out here. Zero. That's how many.
A society (even a perfect one) saying to others, "I've got mine, screw you" really IS pretty useless to the rest of the globe.
Mwhahahaha!!
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Originally posted by Grampy Bobby"What would the world look like if all people were atheists?"
[b]"What would the world look like if all people were atheists?"
"I am interested in how atheists would see the world if there was no mention of any God or gods? Would it be possible? Is it your opinion the world would be a better place? If so, in what way? What would you speak against then? Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of ...[text shortened]... I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow." http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9514[/b]
Those who have not believed in Christ who are alive at the beginning of the Tribulation will find out en mass...............
Originally posted by twhiteheadSweden as well as all other countries will become subject to the worst form of tyranny the world has ever seen. Evil will be unrestrained because the Royal Family of Believers in Christ who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit will have been removed. Their invisible restraining influence will be gone. Satan will be left to his own devices and the world situation will turn grim.
So basically, after the Tribulation it will be like a global Sweden?
Originally posted by Grampy BobbySo this grim picture has nothing to do with the morality of atheists, but rather because of Satan?
Satan will be left to his own devices and the world situation will turn grim.
So would you agree that a country in today's world, prior to the tribulation, would not suffer the same fate?
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Originally posted by twhiteheadCorrect. Morality isn't and never has been the issue. Yes. Leading up to the tribulation conditions will worsen but nothing compared to the evil and subjugation that will dominate the globe once believers (all of whom are indwelt by the Holy Spirit) are removed. Satanic activity will be unrestrained. Populations will struggle for food and supplies. Freedom? Kiss it good bye.
So this grim picture has nothing to do with the morality of atheists, but rather because of Satan?
So would you agree that a country in today's world, prior to the tribulation, would not suffer the same fate?
Note: Satan's strategy is to confuse people from becoming Believers in Christ with clever counterfeits and distractions.