Originally posted by KellyJaySpeciation has been observed. New genes have been observed in bacteria. Where does it stop? It sounds, Kelly, like you just don't want it to be true, rather than offering any evidence against it.
Small little changes in something that cause it to be nothing more than
what it is, is not the same thing as having those changes add up to
where through time something that didn't have them has its descendents
to grow eyes equipped with lids a brain and so on getting them all to
work together and so on. That you don't have, you only 'imagine' it
nothi ...[text shortened]... onary believers call it a fact when
it is only between their ears and no where else.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJaythe same old baloney repeated ad nauseam. You're argument amounts to nothing more than
Small little changes in something that cause it to be nothing more than
what it is, is not the same thing as having those changes add up to
where through time something that didn't have them has its descendents
to grow eyes equipped with lids a brain and so on getting them all to
work together and so on. That you don't have, you only 'imagine' it
nothi ...[text shortened]... onary believers call it a fact when
it is only between their ears and no where else.
Kelly
"NAH NAH NAH NAH I disagree with the results of decades of serious research because I'm right and there all wrong and god is on my side so I'm righter than you and my dad's bigger than your dad"
Originally posted by aardvarkhomeThe same ole argument, it is more like pointing out the emperor isn't
the same old baloney repeated ad nauseam. You're argument amounts to nothing more than
"NAH NAH NAH NAH I disagree with the results of decades of serious research because I'm right and there all wrong and god is on my side so I'm righter than you and my dad's bigger than your dad"
wearing any clothes. The whole of evolution is that occurs, but it isn't
seen only believed in, and after years of saying it occurs it is still just
someone saying it, and others believing it.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayBUT IT'S BEEN PHYSICALLY OBSERVED.
The same ole argument, it is more like pointing out the emperor isn't
wearing any clothes. The whole of evolution is that occurs, but it isn't
seen only believed in, and after years of saying it occurs it is still just
someone saying it, and others believing it.
Kelly
You can feel free to say "gravity is only a theory and doesn't really exist" if you want. I wouldn't suggest walking off any cliffs though.
Originally posted by scottishinnzOkay, when you see changes in bacteria, does bacteria grow
Speciation has been observed. New genes have been observed in bacteria. Where does it stop? It sounds, Kelly, like you just don't want it to be true, rather than offering any evidence against it.
something along the lines of arms, or does it remain bacteria as
we have always known it, ever changing? We can breed dogs to
change but they are at the end of the day, still just dogs. Anything
you have witnessed with bacteria have it, become something like a
worm over time with all the various changes that would be required
for that change?
Kelly
Originally posted by aardvarkhomeYou twisted my words and left my name at the end of that statement.
or to put it another way
i]Originally posted by KellyJay[/i]
[b]I'm not opposed to valid science, I just don't like people using the
term fact when they are discussing a fact that undermines my belief.
Kelly
Thats a little clearer isn't it[/b]
You want to worry about anything being valid and you lied like that.
I can understand you wanting to make a point, but that is low.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayYou have never ever addressed the fact that it is indeed observed. When you keep ignoring something because you can't answer it it can be rather annoying for the person pointing it out. Address the fact or stop claiming that evolution is based on faith.
You are lowering your discussion to howardgee's level, shame.
Kelly
1 edit
Originally posted by XanthosNZWhat has been observed small changes in bacteria? When you see
You have never ever addressed the fact that it is indeed observed. When you keep ignoring something because you can't answer it it can be rather annoying for the person pointing it out. Address the fact or stop claiming that evolution is based on faith.
changes in something so small but it remains bacteria what have
you proved, what have you seen? Nothing at all that comes close to
the level of changes that have been suggested have occurred where
the staring point could have been as small as a single cell at some
great amount of time in the past, and today you get life like whales,
flies, grass, jellyfish, people and so on. You can see small changes
big deal no one is saying that doesn't happen, what is not seen is
that these changes add up to something that turns bacteria into
a blade of grass. You start with bacteria you end with bacteria and
that is all that has been seen, if that is what you have observed
and that is what you are talking about you are talking about faith.
Since seeing small changes does not translate into keeping the
good ones and them over time turning life into something else,
it only shows that you see small changes.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI posted this in the flood thread.
You are lowering your discussion to howardgee's level, shame.
Kelly
'There has recently been a good example made in these forums regarding plants. Here are a few.
"While studying the genetics of the evening primrose, Oenothera lamarckiana, de Vries (1905) found an unusual variant among his plants. O. lamarckiana has a chromosome number of 2N = 14. The variant had a chromosome number of 2N = 28. He found that he was unable to breed this variant with O. lamarckiana. He named this new species O. gigas."
"Frandsen (1943, 1947) was able to do this same sort of recreation of species in the genus Brassica (cabbage, etc.). His experiments showed that B. carinata (n = 17) may be recreated by hybridizing B. nigra (n = 8) and B. oleracea, B. juncea (n = 18) may be recreated by hybridizing B. nigra and B. campestris (n = 10), and B. napus (n = 19) may be recreated by hybridizing B. oleracea and B. campestris."
"Pasterniani (1969) produced almost complete reproductive isolation between two varieties of maize. The varieties were distinguishable by seed color, white versus yellow. Other genetic markers allowed him to identify hybrids. The two varieties were planted in a common field. Any plant's nearest neighbors were always plants of the other strain. Selection was applied against hybridization by using only those ears of corn that showed a low degree of hybridization as the source of the next years seed. Only parental type kernels from these ears were planted. The strength of selection was increased each year. In the first year, only ears with less than 30% intercrossed seed were used. In the fifth year, only ears with less than 1% intercrossed seed were used. After five years the average percentage of intercrossed matings dropped from 35.8% to 4.9% in the white strain and from 46.7% to 3.4% in the yellow strain."
"At reasonably low concentrations, copper is toxic to many plant species. Several plants have been seen to develop a tolerance to this metal (Macnair 1981). Macnair and Christie (1983) used this to examine the genetic basis of a postmating isolating mechanism in yellow monkey flower. When they crossed plants from the copper tolerant "Copperopolis" population with plants from the nontolerant "Cerig" population, they found that many of the hybrids were inviable. During early growth, just after the four leaf stage, the leaves of many of the hybrids turned yellow and became necrotic. Death followed this. This was seen only in hybrids between the two populations. Through mapping studies, the authors were able to show that the copper tolerance gene and the gene responsible for hybrid inviability were either the same gene or were very tightly linked. These results suggest that reproductive isolation may require changes in only a small number of genes."
In animals;
"Dobzhansky and Pavlovsky (1971) reported a speciation event that occurred in a laboratory culture of Drosophila paulistorum sometime between 1958 and 1963. The culture was descended from a single inseminated female that was captured in the Llanos of Colombia. In 1958 this strain produced fertile hybrids when crossed with conspecifics of different strains from Orinocan. From 1963 onward crosses with Orinocan strains produced only sterile males. Initially no assortative mating or behavioral isolation was seen between the Llanos strain and the Orinocan strains. Later on Dobzhansky produced assortative mating (Dobzhansky 1972)."
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html'
Speciation, proven and reproven.
Where is the PROOF that man evolves?
Sure we put different clothes on everyday, but that's not evolution.
I only have the two eyes that God gave me, etc.
You won't believe in the Word of God because it scares you.
It should scare the crap out of you! Read the book of Isaiah.
C'mon man! Proof that man evolves into something!!!!
Okay, we were monkeys (yeah right) then cavemen then men
then what????????????
Aw c'mon evolution is so nonsensical it's just SAD
Originally posted by NosracIt's not the Word of God I'm afraid of, but the Word of Man.
Where is the PROOF that man evolves?
Sure we put different clothes on everyday, but that's not evolution.
I only have the two eyes that God gave me, etc.
You won't believe in the Word of God because it scares you.
It should scare the crap out of you! Read the book of Isaiah.
C'mon man! Proof that man evolves into something!!!!
Okay, we were monkeys (y ...[text shortened]... cavemen then men
then what????????????
Aw c'mon evolution is so nonsensical it's just SAD
-JC
Originally posted by NosracJust keeping harping on like the loon you are about something you don't even understand and have no intention of seriously studying.
Where is the PROOF that man evolves?
Sure we put different clothes on everyday, but that's not evolution.
I only have the two eyes that God gave me, etc.
You won't believe in the Word of God because it scares you.
It should scare the crap out of you! Read the book of Isaiah.
C'mon man! Proof that man evolves into something!!!!
Okay, we were monkeys (y ...[text shortened]... cavemen then men
then what????????????
Aw c'mon evolution is so nonsensical it's just SAD
Originally posted by KellyJayDogs didn't exist 150000yrs ago. They evolved from something else.
Okay, when you see changes in bacteria, does bacteria grow
something along the lines of arms, or does it remain bacteria as
we have always known it, ever changing? We can breed dogs to
change but they are at the end of the day, still just dogs. Anything
you have witnessed with bacteria have it, become something like a
worm over time with all the various changes that would be required
for that change?
Kelly