1. Standard membersonship
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    10 Apr '18 12:385 edits
    I would like why interpreters of Matthew 25:31-46 about the sheep and the goats ofteh misunderstand this teaching.

    This is not the first time I explained this.

    It is not the only time I debated about it.
    And you are welcomed to have a different opinion.

    But here is the teaching. And this week I'll explain that this judgment is not the judgement according to the preaching of the Gospel of grace done by the church.

    Read and digest first, enjoy and master all the stated details.

    "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, at that time He will sit on the throne of His glory. (v.31)

    And all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. (v.32)

    And He will set the sheep on His right hand and the goats on the left. (v.33)
    Then the King will say to those on His right hand, Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. (v.34)

    For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat ; I was thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in, (v.35)
    Naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me. (v.36)

    Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, Lord, when have we seen You hungry and have fed You, or thirsty and have given You a drink? (v.37)
    And when have we seen You a stranger and have taken You in, or naked and have clothed You? (v.38)
    And the King will answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you have done it to one of these, the least of My brothers, you have done it to Me. (v.40)

    Then He will say also to those on the left, Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (v.41)
    For I was hungry and you did not give Me anything to eat; I was thirsty and you did not give Me a drink; (v.42)
    I was a stranger and you did not take Me in; naked and you did not clothe Me; sick and in prison, and you did not visit Me. (v.43)

    Then they also will answer, saying, Lord, when have we seen You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to You? (v.44)

    Then He will answer them, saying, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, neither have you done it to Me. (v.45)

    And these shall go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matt. 25:31-46 Recovery Version)
  2. Standard membersonship
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    11 Apr '18 11:00
    This passage has inspired people through the centuries to be kind and charitable to those who are down and out, oppressed and less fortunate. And it should because early man (Cain for example) had an attitude of apathy towards his brother and fellow man Abel.

    "Am I my brother's keeper?" he retorted to God.

    But I would call this an application of Matthew 25:31-46. I mean like borrowing elements from it to apply to another problem of humanitarian neglect.

    I am not against this kind of "borrowing" of the passage for inspiration for humanitarian works. But here I am more concerned with the interpretaion of the passage than I am with the application of it.

    This is a parable with a prophetic prediction of how Christ, when He comes to earth to establish His millennial kingdom, will deal with the people who are alive at that time who have passed through the last three and one half years of "great tribulation".
  3. Standard membersonship
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    11 Apr '18 11:182 edits
    "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, at that time He will sit on the throne of His glory. (v.31)


    WHEN - The prediction concerns "when the Son of Man comes in His glory". This is at the end of the church age. Raptures have taken place. His enemies have been defeated at Armageddon. Israel has been rescued dramatically. And it has been decided already which Christians will be rewarded to reign with Him over the earth for one thousand years.
  4. Standard membersonship
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    11 Apr '18 11:21
    He comes and sits on the throne of His glory.

    Jesus coming to sit on the throne of His glory is mentioned in Matthew 19:28.

    "And Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you that you who have followed Me, in the restoration,

    when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matt. 19:28)


    Christ will sit on the throne of His glory in Israel in Jerusalem. And the twelve original disciples (minus Judas who was replaced) will also sit on twelve thrones.

    This is not in heaven.
    This is not in the age of the new heaven and new earth at the conclusion of the millennial reign.
    This is at the beginning of the millennial reign when Christ:

    1.) Still has some promises to keep towards the nation of Israel.
    2.) Sets as an incentive to the church to REWARD (in distinction from GIFT) those who cooperated with His salvation of grace through the church age.

    That is the "WHEN" of this parable and prophesy.

    It it not about the last judgment of all mankind at the end of the millennium spoken of in Revelation 20 .

    Confusion is introduced when Bible students assume that Matthew 25:31-46 is the same as the final judgment at the great white throne at the end of the millennial age.

    Does anyone challenge this so far?
    Does anyone need further evidence relevant to this point?
  5. Standard membersonship
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    11 Apr '18 11:331 edit
    Again, the time, the "when" of the prophecy concerns Jesus sitting in Jerusalem in Israel governing the world from "the throne of His glory" on the planet.

    Luke 1:32-33 speak of this sitting and reigning in this way.

    "He [Jesus] will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to Him the throne of David His father,

    And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:32,33)


    This kingdom on earth starts in the millennium time. It will extend into the next age, the age of the new heaven and new earth.

    The throne of David His father is the messianic throne.
    It is the same as "the throne of His glory".

    We also may examine Jeremiah 3:17.

    "At that time they will call Jerusalem the throne of Jehovah, and all the nations will be gathered to it because the name of Jehovah is at Jerusalem; and they will no longer walk after the stubbornness of their evil heart." (Jer. 3:18)


    Matthew 25:31-46 concerns this time not the time of the eternal age after the judgment of the great white throne in Revelation 20.
  6. Standard membersonship
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    11 Apr '18 14:18
    Are we clear yet?

    The throne of His glory is the throne in Jerusalem.
    It is the throne of David, the messianic throne in the land of Israel.

    The WHEN of Matthew 25:31-46 is the time following the great tribulation when Christ comes at the beginning of "the restoration" of the earth. He is to reign for a thousand years.

    The Gentile nations are of those people ALIVE, LIVING who are inhabiting the earth at the time of His coming down to earth.

    This judgment is not of the dead but of those living who have passed through the great tribulation.

    Now we have to see that these "sheep" are not Christian sheep.

    In another sense the Gentile nations are said to be God's sheep. In view of our being CREATED by God all the nations are in that sense God's sheep.

    Consult Psalm 100.

    "Make a joyful noise to Jehovah, ALL THE EARTH. Serve Jehovah with rejoicing. Come before His presence with singing.

    Know that it is Jehovah who is God, It is He who has made us and not we ourselves.

    We are His people and the SHEEP of His pasture." (Psalm 100:1-3)
  7. Standard membersonship
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    11 Apr '18 14:25
    We have some astute Bible readers here. Feel free to challenge the exposition here.

    It should be tested.

    The SHEEP of Matthew 25:31-46 does not refer to the Christian church. The SHEEP of this teaching refers to the nations, the Gentiles who in view of being created by God are His "sheep" in the pasture of His earth.

    "Know that it is Jehovah who is God, It is He who has made us and not we ourselves.

    We are His people and the SHEEP of His pasture." (Psalm 100:3)


    The sheep and the goats in Matthew 25:31-46 refer to nations of peoples received to enter into the millennial kingdom and nations of peoples rejected from entering into the millennial kingdom.

    The word "nations" is the same world translated as Gentiles in Matthew 4:15; 6:32; 10:5,18; 12:18 and 20:19,25. .

    All the nations of living people are divided up into sheep blessed and goats cursed. HOW they behaved during the great tribulation is the bases of Christ's judgment and not the preaching of the church's gospel of grace.
  8. Standard membersonship
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    11 Apr '18 14:33
    I have to go out for awhile.

    Let me be clear. This is a difficult passage.
    It took me much caution and study before I accepted the interpretation that I put forth to you.

    I received but I checked it out carefully when I received it.
    I think it needs to be challenged because it is not expected.

    Because of the Protestant Reformation some of us go over to the extreme of seeing the Gospel of grace everywhere.

    Now this judgment is not of the dead who are brought before the great white throne in Revelation 20. It is of the living who passed through the time of the great tribulation, Antichrist, the False Prophet, and the last three and one half years of world wide calamities natural and supernatural.
  9. Standard memberapathist
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    11 Apr '18 16:59
    I think you are mentally ill. Very smart and very stupid at once. You don't have a foundation that helps you make rational decisions.
  10. Standard memberapathist
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    11 Apr '18 17:03
    The world is full of myths, some of them are highly developed. Why are you invested here? Not because of truth, I think you don't even convince the choir about that.
  11. Standard membersonship
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    11 Apr '18 17:18
    Let's just say I am a fool for Jesus Christ.

    Whose fool are you?
  12. Standard membersonship
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    11 Apr '18 17:541 edit
    Originally posted by @apathist
    I think you are mentally ill. Very smart and very stupid at once. You don't have a foundation that helps you make rational decisions.
    Let's stop pretending that not making sense somehow makes sense.
    - Troll Apathist

    You start.

    Trusting in Jesus is a perfectly rational decision.
    I think it is rationale to believe a man who spoke and acted like the Son of God.
  13. Standard membersonship
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    11 Apr '18 19:12
    So the sheep and the goats do not stand for Christians verses non-Christians in Matthew 25:31-46. The mean the Gentiles, the nations some of which will be the sheep to transition from the previous age into the new age. The rejected Gentiles and nations go to the lake of fire.

    Perhaps the hardest thing to take about this is that the justified sheep are said to enter into eternal life, yet they are not the born again sons of God produced by the Gospel of grace.

    This is a time of dispensational transfer. One age and dispensation is coming to a close and another age is commencing. The sheep enter into blessed state that Adam was CREATED in before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil being fallen.

    "And these shall go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (v.46)


    It doesn't say that eternal life enters into them.
    But it says that they enter into eternal life.
    They will be restored to the state that Adam was created in when he as created "very good".

    Adam was not born with the life of God within him.
    But he was a very good creation with an everlasting life that was terminated by joining himself to God's enemy.

    Some nations must be the ones OVER whom the sons of God from the church age will reign. These ones over whom the sons of God reign will be from the nations that transition from the church age, through the great tribulation, and pass saved by Christ to inherit the millennial kingdom UNDER the reign of Christ and His brothers.

    "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." (v.34)


    I know that many of you have never heard this before.
    Stick with the explanation. There is much more to understand.
  14. Joined
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    11 Apr '18 19:15
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Let's stop pretending that not making sense somehow makes sense.
    - Troll Apathist

    You start.

    Trusting in Jesus is a perfectly rational decision.
    I think it is rationale to believe a man who spoke and acted like the Son of God.
    “Insanity -- a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.” - RD Laing
  15. Standard membersonship
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    11 Apr '18 19:233 edits
    You must understand that in this parable / prophecy there are not TWO parties but THREE.

    1.) The sheep people of the Gentile nations.
    2.) The goat people of the Gentile nations.
    3.) The ones who are the brothers of Jesus Christ down to the LEAST of them.

    Group #1 and group #2 are examined, judged, justified or condemned according to HOW they treated or mistreated group # 3 during the time of the great tribulation.

    There are three parties in the teaching and not just two.

    "Truly, I say to you, Inasmuch as you have done it to one of these, the least of My brothers, you have done it to Me." (v.40)

    "Truly, I say to you, Inasmuch as youy did not do it to one of the least of these, neither have you done it to Me. (v.45)


    "one of these, the least of My brothers..." (v.40) and
    "one of the least of these" (v.45) do not refer to either the sheep or the goats but to a third group who we may think of either being WITH the Lord Jesus or ASSOCIATED with Him such that He can point to them, direct attention to them.

    The issue is "HOW did you treat these, even to the LEAST of them, brothers of Christ" during the time of the great tribulation.

    Soon we will bring in the book of Revelation to see this with more clarity.
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