1. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    14 Dec '07 04:53
    Let me be the first to say it.

    I might be wrong.

    There may be a God. I could be completely mistaken in my atheistic lifestyle. I don't think I'm wrong. But, thinks I, the world is too crappy a place to be the work of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god.

    But I might be wrong.

    How many theists (and other atheists), I wonder, will be willing to follow my example, and state unequivocally that they might be wrong about the whole God thing?

    Consider yourself challenged.
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    14 Dec '07 05:32
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Let me be the first to say it.

    I might be wrong.

    There may be a God. I could be completely mistaken in my atheistic lifestyle. I don't think I'm wrong. But, thinks I, the world is too crappy a place to be the work of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god.

    But I might be wrong.

    How many theists (and other atheists), I wonder, will ...[text shortened]... uivocally that they might be wrong about the whole God thing?

    Consider yourself challenged.
    Well it seems that I am confronted every day about being wrong about something. However, all I have is what I believe is "right".
  3. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    14 Dec '07 05:461 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    However, all I have is what I believe is "right".
    Then you have one less thing than a man with beliefs and an open mind.
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    14 Dec '07 06:022 edits
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Then you have one less thing than a man with beliefs and an open mind.
    This brings up some interesting questions. Does belief close ones mind to opposing beliefs? This question involves both atheist and theist alike. Also, at what point does a belief stop being a belief if one opens the door to an alternate belief?
  5. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    14 Dec '07 06:23
    Originally posted by whodey
    Well it seems that I am confronted every day about being wrong about something. However, all I have is what I believe is "right".
    Okay, so you're willing to accept the notion that you might be wrong?

    Of so, how does one tell the difference between reality and a delusion?
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
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    14 Dec '07 06:28
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Let me be the first to say it.

    I might be wrong.

    There may be a God. I could be completely mistaken in my atheistic lifestyle. I don't think I'm wrong. But, thinks I, the world is too crappy a place to be the work of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god.

    But I might be wrong.

    How many theists (and other atheists), I wonder, will ...[text shortened]... uivocally that they might be wrong about the whole God thing?

    Consider yourself challenged.
    I acknowledge I could be wrong, but I do not believe so.
    Kelly
  7. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    14 Dec '07 06:35
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I acknowledge I could be wrong, but I do not believe so.
    Kelly
    Fair enough, who would follow a religion they believe to be wrong?

    Nice to hear from you Kelly.

    So, again the question, how can we determine fact, truth, from fiction?

    What would it take to prove to you [generic theist, rather than Kelly specifically] that God does not exist? If the answer is "nothing", then you clearly DO NOT accept that you might be wrong.
  8. Standard memberKellyJay
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    14 Dec '07 07:441 edit
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Fair enough, who would follow a religion they believe to be wrong?

    Nice to hear from you Kelly.

    So, again the question, how can we determine fact, truth, from fiction?

    What would it take to prove to you [generic theist, rather than Kelly specifically] that God does not exist? If the answer is "nothing", then you clearly DO NOT accept that you might be wrong.
    I imagine at death we are all going to know one way or another, if
    there is nothing who cares. With respect to can I be shown I'm wrong,
    not unless you can show me how I can be right too. It does cut both
    ways and each of us falls into that position with respect to God, gods,
    or no God/gods. When it comes to God and faith only God can prove
    He is real to any of us if we could prove it either way, it would no
    longer be a matter of faith.
    Kelly

    Nice seeing you too, hope all is well with you and yours!
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    14 Dec '07 10:08
    I believe there's no evidence to suggest god exists, I could be wrong about the amount of evidence or the persuasiveness thereof. But until I reach a position where either of these things change my belief will remain.
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    14 Dec '07 11:50
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    What would it take to prove to you [generic theist, rather than Kelly specifically] that God does not exist? If the answer is "nothing", then you clearly DO NOT accept that you might be wrong.[/b]
    Ok, I will take a stab at this. I have tried to explain my position in previous threads so here it goes. Faith has less to do with a mental acknowledgement that God exists as it does being relational in nature. For example, there are many Biblical examples of situations where God has provided evidence for his existence to people yet they lost faith in him. Examples include Adam and Eve, the children of Israel watching the Red Sea part before them, Jesus healing people and raising people from the dead etc. yet many did not place there faith in God despite having ample evidence for his existence. In fact, I bet if God phsically appeared in front of you you might try to explain such a phenonemon away by saying you were delusional etc.

    The greatest commandment in the Bible is to love God and your fellow man. Therefore, if one does so what are the implications? Is not faith a natural byproduct of love? You may think that I exist, however, do you have faith in me? Perhaps if you loved me you might place your faith in me but not until. Therefore, a better question is why we love God than asking why we believe in his existence. I suppose to errode ones faith one must attack the core reasons we love our God. For me, the teachings of Christ resonated to such a degree with me that I knew that I knew them to be truth and words of life to me. I can relate with the disciples when they walked with Christ after Jesus had delivered a hard teaching and many forsook him afterwards. He looked at them and asked them if they would leave as well. The smiled and asked him where they would go because he beheld the words of life. Christ once said that when he came into the world he was a light that revealed darkness from light and that men then either preferred the light because they preferred righteousness or the darkness because their deeds were evil and they did not want to be discovered. As for me, I prefer the light.

    I will say that I have other evidences for my belief in God. For example, the God of the Bible has ancient roots. You might say that others who have served him and claimed his existence to be evidence for such an existence. For example, if people started coming to you and saying that pink unicorns exist and they appear to be somewhat intelligent and relaiable sources then you may begin to wonder. It is not proof, rather, it is merely evidence. Also there is the issue of Biblical truth in terms of its rich history, prohphesy, and wisdom and truth. For example, stories in the OT that are often laughed at by those not of the faith might have archeological evidence for possibly occuring and often do. In terms of prophecy, the most striking to me is Daniel 9:24-27 which provides a calendar for the coming Messiah the first go round. If we have not discussed this together I could elaborate if you wish.

    So you see, I have not divorced reason, rather, I have merely extended beyond my own limited reasoning abilities because I feel compelled to do so because of my love for my God. It is akin to someone you love whom everyone else might loose faith in and give up on. You still believe in them because you love them no matter what everyone else may say about them.
  11. Standard memberDavid C
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    14 Dec '07 12:06
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Consider yourself challenged.
    Fine, but I cannot do it unequivocally. I will grant there could be some form of deistic reality to the Big Bang. I will not, however, cede the possibility that any extant earth-bound revealed "religion" describes this entity's nature, nor the idea that the universe was "created" for humankind. Happy?
  12. Standard membertelerion
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    14 Dec '07 14:051 edit
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    So, again the question, how can we determine fact, truth, from fiction?

    You didn't just ask KJ that question did you? Oh Christ, here we go again . . .


    And yes I could be wrong. If I am, I hope that discover it someday.
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    14 Dec '07 14:38
    Originally posted by telerion
    You didn't just ask KJ that question did you? Oh Christ, here we go again . . .


    And yes I could be wrong. If I am, I hope that discover it someday.
    🙂 I was good.
    Kelly
  14. Standard memberRed Night
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    14 Dec '07 16:53
    Interesting again to see the Atheistic Belief system.

    And again, the failure to grasp the concept that "belief" in no God is in fact a "belief" in the god of atheism is astounding.
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    14 Dec '07 16:56
    Originally posted by Red Night
    Interesting again to see the Atheistic Belief system.

    And again, the failure to grasp the concept that "belief" in no God is in fact a "belief" in the god of atheism is astounding.
    I'm astounded that you cannot see the difference between having beliefs about the concept of god and his non-existence and having beliefs about a god of atheism.
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