Who's the worst extremist?

Originally posted by FMF
[b]Pudgenik: Mankind does not know the depth of darkness when it comes to the Lake of Fire. But maybe we can witness the depravity of man from the human past. Germanys camps of WWII. The experimentation of men and women, and all the horrible acts that were done. And what of the more "modern" camps of torture around the world.

FMF: So the darkness a ...[text shortened]... elsen and other places?

Pudgenik: You can't imagine it.

Thread 158731[/b]

It's incredible. These last few weeks here have been an epiphany for me.

Originally posted by KellyJay
So you are comparing Christians who believe we need to love one another,
strive to lift up Jesus to save the lost so they can avoid a Devil's hell with
those that would murder others upfront because they don't agree with
their beliefs? You don't like the idea of Hell, so those that believe in it are
worse to you than those that would murder women, child ...[text shortened]... Hell is worse than murder in your eyes? Wow, that is a stance that
I find mind blowing!
Kelly

Could you say that again please I completely lost you. What is mind blowing?

Originally posted by Rank outsider
Do you ever read what people post?

I mean really read it, think about it, question yourself before making a considered response.

Not just glance at it, decide what it means from your narrow and dogmatic perspective, and blurt something out in response?

Divegeester did not say any of this.

Thank you!

Originally posted by KellyJay
The 2nd death no one has gone there yet.
Kelly

Death is not a place to go to. Try to open your mind and think a little. Death is Death, not ETERNAL LIFE suffering.

Originally posted by KellyJay
He took it upon himself to compare the two, I have never said once saved
always saved.
Kelly

Did he say that he thought people who believed in hell were worse than murderers?

Why are you mentioning 'once saved always saved'? I never mentioned it.

Is your argument that if you think people lied about what you said, it is OK to lie about what other people said?

Originally posted by divegeester
Death is not a place to go to. Try to open your mind and think a little. Death is Death, not ETERNAL LIFE suffering.

Perhaps spiritual death is different enough from physical death that we just don't understand it. If one obtains ETERNAL LIFE there is no more suffering according to the Holy Bible. But the Holy Bible says that in the second death there is torment day after day forever and ever.

Originally posted by divegeester
At least the Muslim extremists are upfront with their killing; they kill you here and now, once and for all.

Whereas some of my fellow Christians here leave it to their version of god who in the afterlife will burn the infidels for all eternity and stand and watch.

Christians, please examine your beliefs.

Are you suggesting that we be as extreme as a Muslim and kill like they do?

What do you mean by 'upfront'? I don't recall any warning being given before they blow themselves up killing innocent men, women and children?

Originally posted by josephw
Are you suggesting that we be as extreme as a Muslim and kill like they do?

What do you mean by 'upfront'? I don't recall any warning being given before they blow themselves up killing innocent men, women and children?

No of course not. But I cannot think of any act of terrorism that causes anything near as bad as what you believe will happen to the infidel in hell.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Perhaps spiritual death is different enough from physical death that we just don't understand it. If one obtains ETERNAL LIFE there is no more suffering according to the Holy Bible. But the Holy Bible says that in the second death there is torment day after day forever and ever.

Perhaps it means this, perhaps it means that, yes perhaps second death does mean eternal life in flames.

You take the word of god as literal in one hand and symbolic in the other depending on what suits your need.

You create doctrines of death and fear of literally eternal burning on the one hand, and then deny that death actually means death of the other.

Originally posted by divegeester

Christians, please examine your beliefs.

How I feel about eternal punishment now today and how I will feel about it in eternity, I expect to be different.

God's purpose is to conform the redeemed into the image of Christ through transformation. I expect that what things I do NOT see through the eyes of God today, when the transformation process is completed, I will see through His eyes.

While I do not like the thought of eternal punishment today, when I am fully conformed to the image of the Son, I expect that there will be no difference between God's thought on this and my own.

Notice that the only Hallelujahs in the New Testament are found in the book of Revelation The Hallelujahs are heard for the first time in the New Testament when Babylon the Great (as an arch-enemy of God) is being destroyed and her smoke ascends forever and ever.

The First Hallelujahs from God's saints in the New Testament:

Revelation 19:1 - 6

"After these things I heard as it were a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying, Hallelujah! The salvation and the glory and power are of our God.

For true and righteous are His judgments; for He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication, and He avenged the blood of His slaves at her hand.

And a second time they said, Hallelujah! And her smoke goes up forever and ever.

And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshipped God, who sits upon the throne, saying, Amen, Hallelujah!"

This passage indicates the rejoicing of the saints who are raptured and are about to descend with Christ as His Bridal army (vs.7-9). So they must match Christ. The thoughts of their Bridegroom they must share. For they have been conformed to His image within and glorified without to accompany Him as His bridal army at the war of Armageddon.

The point here is that the Hallelujahs include the rejoicing that the smoke of the destruction of some of the enemies of Jesus Christ ascends up forever and ever. They have learned to love what Jesus loves and to hate what Jesus hates.

I have every confidence that every Christian will eventually be conformed to the image of Christ. And in that consummate state there will be no distance between Christ's and God's outlook on the matter of judgement and their own. If they are not clear today about the need for His enemies to be vanquished with destruction forever and ever, the day will come when they are persuaded that this is best.

"For TRUE and RIGHTEOUS are His judgements ..." (v.2)

You brothers who are for annhilation or universal salvation and are against God punishing forever - what you disdain today you will rejoice in some day. The day will come when you too will see things through God's eyes. You too, someday, will shout Hallelujah at His true and righteous judgements.

Q. Who's the worst extremist?
A. Some liberal? 😀

Originally posted by Rank outsider
[.

If hell existed, and I could destroy it by murdering someone, it would be a moral imperative for me to murder that person.

Would that include your only son?

Originally posted by divegeester
Death is not a place to go to. Try to open your mind and think a little. Death is Death, not ETERNAL LIFE suffering.

If you don't know what the 2nd death is I'm not sure why you'd ever
even bring up a discussion about Hell.
Kelly

Originally posted by sonship

Christians, please examine your beliefs.

How I feel about eternal punishment now today and how I will feel about it in eternity, I expect to be different.

God's purpose is to conform the redeemed into the image of Christ through transformation. I expect that what things I do NOT see through the eyes of God today, when the transformat ...[text shortened]... yes. You too, someday, will shout [b]Hallelujah at His true and righteous judgements.[/b]

You hope that you will feel differently about people being tortured for all eternity, where as I hope that you are misinterpreting scripture. You will spend considerable time defending verses from a book know to be symbolic in general nature because it is your preconceived version of the truth . I look at the nature of God throughout the Bible and see him differently to you. I see scriptures that say over and over and over (not just once or twice in revelation):

- mercy triumphs over judgement

- god is love

- his love endures forever

- his mercy never ends

I also see over and over and over "hear oh Israel The Lord your God is one" but you don't seem to take any notice of that when expounding pages and pages and pages expounding the erroneous holy [sic] trinity doctrine. Furthermore in the aforementioned book of revelation it also says of Jesus "I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end". You also ignore that.

That you take much long than others to make your point, does not mean that your point is correct.

This is what I mean by examine your beliefs.

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you don't know what the 2nd death is I'm not sure why you'd ever
even bring up a discussion about Hell.
Kelly

Do you ever read anyone's post and actually process what's been said before blurting a response. This response has no connection with what I posted.