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    27 Jul '14 09:52
    At least the Muslim extremists are upfront with their killing; they kill you here and now, once and for all.

    Whereas some of my fellow Christians here leave it to their version of god who in the afterlife will burn the infidels for all eternity and stand and watch.

    Christians, please examine your beliefs.
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    27 Jul '14 10:05
    Originally posted by divegeester
    At least the Muslim extremists are upfront with their killing; they kill you here and now, once and for all.

    Whereas some of my fellow Christians here leave it to their version of god who in the afterlife will burn the infidels for all eternity and stand and watch.

    Christians, please examine your beliefs.
    Im surprised you did not know that the overwhelming majority of Christians believe in eternal torment for anyone who dont 'know of' or 'believe in' Christ.
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Jul '14 10:061 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    At least the Muslim extremists are upfront with their killing; they kill you here and now, once and for all.

    Whereas some of my fellow Christians here leave it to their version of god who in the afterlife will burn the infidels for all eternity and stand and watch.

    Christians, please examine your beliefs.
    Pudgenik: Mankind does not know the depth of darkness when it comes to the Lake of Fire. But maybe we can witness the depravity of man from the human past. Germanys camps of WWII. The experimentation of men and women, and all the horrible acts that were done. And what of the more "modern" camps of torture around the world.

    FMF: So the darkness and depravity that you imagine God has in store for unbelievers is something worse that what the Germans did with the concentration camps in the 1940s? Is that your point?

    Pudgenik: It will be much worse.

    FMF: So, your theology tells you that what God does to "unbelievers" will be much worse that what the Nazis did to the Jews in Auschwitz, Dachau and Belsen and other places?

    Pudgenik: You can't imagine it.

    Thread 158731
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    27 Jul '14 10:131 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Im surprised you did not know that the overwhelming majority of Christians believe in eternal torment for anyone who dont 'know of' or 'believe in' Christ.
    I've been out mainstream corporate Christianity over 20 years and I assure you I have no intention of returning. My issue used to be with the corporate mind-set, the money, the manipulative techniques, the hammy wishy-washy services etc. But now...good grief.
  5. Standard memberRajk999
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    27 Jul '14 10:281 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    [b]Pudgenik: Mankind does not know the depth of darkness when it comes to the Lake of Fire. But maybe we can witness the depravity of man from the human past. Germanys camps of WWII. The experimentation of men and women, and all the horrible acts that were done. And what of the more "modern" camps of torture around the world.

    FMF: So the darkness a ...[text shortened]... elsen and other places?

    Pudgenik: You can't imagine it.

    Thread 158731[/b]
    You might need to clarify what Pudgenik means by the term 'unbeliever' as it is not the typical definition. Pudgenik is one of the people who includes all religions into Gods Kingdom, entry into which is based on 'love for fellow man' and not on any established church doctrine. Acts of charity, kindness and brotherly love, and a lifestyle based on these, is proof that someone regardless of their religion is of God and that they 'know Christ'.

    Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
    (1 John 4:7-8 KJV)
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
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    27 Jul '14 11:03
    Originally posted by divegeester
    At least the Muslim extremists are upfront with their killing; they kill you here and now, once and for all.

    Whereas some of my fellow Christians here leave it to their version of god who in the afterlife will burn the infidels for all eternity and stand and watch.

    Christians, please examine your beliefs.
    So you are comparing Christians who believe we need to love one another,
    strive to lift up Jesus to save the lost so they can avoid a Devil's hell with
    those that would murder others upfront because they don't agree with
    their beliefs? You don't like the idea of Hell, so those that believe in it are
    worse to you than those that would murder women, children, and men
    because Hell is worse than murder in your eyes? Wow, that is a stance that
    I find mind blowing!
    Kelly
  7. Standard memberRajk999
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    27 Jul '14 11:281 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    So you are comparing Christians who believe we need to love one another,
    strive to lift up Jesus to save the lost so they can avoid a Devil's hell with
    those that would murder others upfront because they don't agree with
    their beliefs? You don't like the idea of Hell, so those that believe in it are
    worse to you than those that would murder women, child ...[text shortened]... Hell is worse than murder in your eyes? Wow, that is a stance that
    I find mind blowing!
    Kelly
    Let me just point out that many of the Christians [you included] dont believe that you NEED to love one another, ie it is not necessary. It is optional, or it is a result of being a Christian. Love automatically follows, which is untrue.

    What exactly is .. strive to lift up Jesus. Is that something the bible said to do. I cannot remember that expression.
  8. Standard memberKellyJay
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    27 Jul '14 11:43
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Let me just point out that many of the Christians [you included] dont believe that you NEED to love one another, ie it is not necessary. It is optional, or it is a result of being a Christian. Love automatically follows, which is untrue.

    What exactly is .. strive to lift up Jesus. Is that something the bible said to do. I cannot remember that expression.
    Where do you get off saying I don't believe we need to love one another?
    What have you seen me say that would make you say that?
    If I cannot, or you cannot love those we see here in this life how can we
    say we love God who we cannot see?
    Kelly
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    27 Jul '14 11:48
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    You don't like the idea of Hell, so those that believe in it are
    worse to you than those that would murder women, children, and men
    because Hell is worse than murder in your eyes? Wow, that is a stance that
    I find mind blowing!
    Kelly
    Do you ever read what people post?

    I mean really read it, think about it, question yourself before making a considered response.

    Not just glance at it, decide what it means from your narrow and dogmatic perspective, and blurt something out in response?

    Divegeester did not say any of this.
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    27 Jul '14 11:49
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Where do you get off saying I don't believe we need to love one another?
    What have you seen me say that would make you say that?
    If I cannot, or you cannot love those we see here in this life how can we
    say we love God who we cannot see?
    Kelly
    If someone shows no love for their fellow man and yet he claims to be a Christian then according to what I understand from the Bible that person will NOT get eternal life.

    You do not believe that. You have already said that they are saved and cannot lose their eternal life.
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Jul '14 11:53
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    You don't like the idea of Hell, so those that believe in it are
    worse to you than those that would murder women, children, and men
    because Hell is worse than murder in your eyes?
    Are there not "women, children, and men" burning in Hell for eternity for being "unbelievers"?
  12. Joined
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    27 Jul '14 12:00
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    Do you ever read what people post?

    I mean really read it, think about it, question yourself before making a considered response.

    Not just glance at it, decide what it means from your narrow and dogmatic perspective, and blurt something out in response?

    Divegeester did not say any of this.
    I, by contrast, am more than happy to say that hell is worse than murder.

    Infinitely worse, for that matter.

    If hell existed, and I could destroy it by murdering someone, it would be a moral imperative for me to murder that person.

    That is how ****ed up your view of your God is.
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    27 Jul '14 12:35
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    If someone shows no love for their fellow man and yet he claims to be a Christian then according to what I understand from the Bible that person will NOT get eternal life.

    You do not believe that. You have already said that they are saved and cannot lose their eternal life.
    I'm sorry, where did you ever see me say that!?
    You seem to paint everyone with the same brush, just post where I said
    that!
    Kelly
  14. Standard memberKellyJay
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    27 Jul '14 12:36
    Originally posted by FMF
    Are there not "women, children, and men" burning in Hell for eternity for being "unbelievers"?
    If anyone ends up in Hell, and no one has yet, it will be due to sin.
    Kelly
  15. Standard memberRajk999
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    27 Jul '14 12:37
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I'm sorry, where did you ever see me say that!?
    You seem to paint everyone with the same brush, just post where I said
    that!
    Kelly
    So if an man is saved he can still lose his eternal life?

    Obviously thats a very big shift in your doctrine.
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