16 Jul 19
The bible explains many things that would seem to be very clear, but aren't like what exactly is fornication, as was just discussed in another thread. Or is the trinity fact? Who goes to heaven or to hell? Does the soul live on after death? Is there a devil? Did the flood really happen? Etc.
So again why such heated disagreements that can in certain areas of the planet cause such bitter hatred that countless amounts of humans have died from it's conflicts?
Could there be a reason or possibly someone behind this? After all the bible supposedly is here to help us in making our life's better and to give us hope for a better life in the future.
Is it God's fault that the world has been bad from the beginning and from all the facts and events up to now, it's just getting worse?
So with the results of all the bad things happening on this planet and the distrust and confusion of many have towards the bible and religion as a whole, is the Bible just here for laughs or should we take it serious? Is it truthful if untruthful beliefs are added to it that are of pagan origins?
So again why is there so much confusion about this book? Who has caused this because it seems to have been very successful?
With this confusion it makes many doubt in the existence of God and of course in turn don't believe in a devil or Satan either.
It takes faith by many to believe in God and still many don't. They need proof. Is there proof of Satan being real? If he is real does he really want us to know that?
Just seeing what thoughts are out there.......
16 Jul 19
@galveston75
Part of it is people who hate God but have lots of money are influencing what is taught and not taught in churches. Many pastors are making big money being Satan's mouthpiece which is why we have people like Suzi.
@galveston75 saidThink not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward. (Matthew 10:34-42 KJV)
The bible explains many things that would seem to be very clear, but aren't like what exactly is fornication, as was just discussed in another thread. Or is the trinity fact? Who goes to heaven or to hell? Does the soul live on after death? Is there a devil? Did the flood really happen? Etc.
So again why such heated disagreements that can in certain areas of the planet ...[text shortened]... If he is real does he really want us to know that?
Just seeing what thoughts are out there.......
The first line - The bible and the teachings of Christ creats divisions amony people.
The last line - Those who follow after charity and good works will be rewarded.
Contrary to what you think, the key to eternal life is not about:
- belonging to the right organisation
- having the right interpretation of the bible
- going door to door and preaching
They key is charity and good works, as Jesus explained in detail in Matt 25
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@eladar saidClassic Eladar.
@galveston75
Part of it is people who hate God but have lots of money are influencing what is taught and not taught in churches. Many pastors are making big money being Satan's mouthpiece which is why we have people like Suzi.
Arrives in a thread. Immediately insults somebody.
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16 Jul 19
@galveston75 saidI think the Bible itself is confused about what it is trying to say. We often find contradictions and errors.
The bible explains many things that would seem to be very clear, but aren't like what exactly is fornication, as was just discussed in another thread. Or is the trinity fact? Who goes to heaven or to hell? Does the soul live on after death? Is there a devil? Did the flood really happen? Etc.
So again why such heated disagreements that can in certain areas of the planet ...[text shortened]... If he is real does he really want us to know that?
Just seeing what thoughts are out there.......
16 Jul 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThanks for your comment. Could you possibly share a couple of those with me? I'd like to do a little research on that if I can.
I think the Bible itself is confused about what it is trying to say. We often find contradictions and errors.
@galveston75 saidHere, do some research on this
Thanks for your comment. Could you possibly share a couple of those with me? I'd like to do a little research on that if I can.
(Deuteronomy 24:16) - "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."
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16 Jul 19
@galveston75 saidSure sir. Here's a couple:
Thanks for your comment. Could you possibly share a couple of those with me? I'd like to do a little research on that if I can.
1 John 5:18 - "We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them."
Ecclesiastes 7:20 - "Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins."
And
"The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend." (Exodus 33:11).
"No one has ever seen God." (1 John 4:12).
16 Jul 19
@rajk999 saidDo you not know that people do not carry out God's commands, but I think that statement has more to do with sin and being spiritually dead. But hey, believe as you wish.
Do you not know that seven of Sauls sons were hanged by David [on Gods approval] for sins committed by Saul?
@eladar saidA lame explanation indeed. Here is a classics, pertaining to the same law. All people are condemned to death because of the sin of Adam. Explain that one
Do you not know that people do not carry out God's commands, but I think that statement has more to do with sin and being spiritually dead. But hey, believe as you wish.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned .. (Romans 5:14 KJV).
Even for people who have not sinned die because of Adam. This is the basic teaching of Paul to all of the churches. Christ came and died because of Adams sin. According to God, that should not have been necessary.
16 Jul 19
@rajk999 saidSorry old buddy but you seem to have left a little bit of that scripture out. Why would you do that? Oh well.
A lame explanation indeed. Here is a classics, pertaining to the same law. All people are condemned to death because of the sin of Adam. Explain that one
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned .. (Romans 5:14 KJV).
Even for people who have not sinned die because of Adam. This is the basic teaching of Paul to all of t ...[text shortened]... s. Christ came and died because of Adams sin. According to God, that should not have been necessary.
Romans 5:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
To understand that better it says this in the Romans 5:14 Common English Bible (CEB)
14 But death ruled from Adam until Moses, even over those who didn’t sin in the same way Adam did—Adam was a type of the one who was coming.
So to clear this up which you only added more confusion is this. No human could sin in the same manner that Adam did. Adam could not sin because of inherited sin that we all do today. His sin was willfully done. He could not unintentionally sin because he did not inherit sin from his creator Jehovah. But all humans sin daily even the faithful men of old like Moses and Noah whom you are implying did not sin.
Jesus is the ONLY human to walk this planet that did not sin. Do you not know the scriptures that explains this fact? If not let me know and I'll post them. And I will not omit anything like you did here.
Also where in the heck did you come up with this idea?
"Even for people who have not sinned die because of Adam. This is the basic teaching of Paul to all of the churches. Christ came and died because of Adams sin. According to God, that should not have been necessary."
16 Jul 19
@galveston75 saidThe part I left out has no bearing on the point. Here it is again
Sorry old buddy but you seem to have left a little bit of that scripture out. Why would you do that? Oh well.
Romans 5:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
To understand that better it says this in the ...[text shortened]... . Christ came and died because of Adams sin. According to God, that should not have been necessary."
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:22 KJV)
The sin of Adam fell on all of mankind. It appears to be contradictory to the statement that sons must not pay for the sins of the father.
Got it?
16 Jul 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThanks. See If this helps on those scriptures.
Sure sir. Here's a couple:
1 John 5:18 - "We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them."
Ecclesiastes 7:20 - "Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins."
And
"The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend." (Exodus 33:11).
"No one has ever seen God." (1 John 4:12).
1 John 5:18 - "We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them."
This scripture is not speaking of anyone on the earth but of those who go to heaven after they are resurrected to rule with Jesus as kings and judges once the judgement starts after Armageddon. The bible in Revelation says it is 144,000 chosen ones by Jesus. He started picking those when he was on earth. The faithful apostles were the cornerstones of that 144,000. So once there they will never sin again as we all do here on earth now.
Also the devil will never be able to harm them at all because of his being bound to the earth for now and of course will be eventually destroyed.
So Ecclesiastes 7:20 is correct. All humans on earth sin everyday.
Now with your question about Moses seeing God. I thought I'd paste this for you instead of typing all of this because of the scriptures. I hope you don't mind. If you can look up all that you can and let me know later what you think.
"Has Anyone Ever Seen God?"
No human has literally seen God. (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18; 1 John 4:12) The Bible says that “God is a Spirit,” a form of life that is invisible to the human eye.—John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17.
God can be seen directly by angels, though, because they are spirit creatures. (Matthew 18:10) Moreover, some humans who die will be raised to life in heaven with a spirit body and will then be able to see God.—Philippians 3:20, 21; 1 John 3:2.
How to “see” God now...
Did not Moses, Abraham, and others actually see God?
In accounts where it might seem that the Bible says that humans literally saw God, the context shows that God was represented by an angel or appeared by means of a vision.
In ancient times, God sent angels as his representatives to appear to humans and to speak in his name. (Psalm 103:20) For example, God once spoke to Moses from a burning bush, and the Bible says that “Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at the true God.” (Exodus 3:4, 6) Moses did not literally see God, though, for the context shows that he actually saw “Jehovah’s angel.”—Exodus 3:2.
Similarly, when the Bible says that God “spoke to Moses face-to-face,” it means that God conversed with Moses intimately. (Exodus 4:10, 11; 33:11) Moses did not actually see God’s face, for the information he received from God “was transmitted through angels.” (Galatians 3:19; Acts 7:53) Still, Moses’ faith in God was so strong that the Bible described him as “seeing the One who is invisible.”—Hebrews 11:27.
In the same way that he spoke to Moses, God communicated with Abraham through angels. Granted, a casual reading of the Bible might give the impression that Abraham literally saw God. (Genesis 18:1, 33) However, the context shows that the “three men” who came to Abraham were actually angels sent by God. Abraham recognized them as God’s representatives and addressed them as if he were speaking directly to Jehovah.—Genesis 18:2, 3, 22, 32; 19:1.