Why all the confusion about what the bible says????

@galveston75 said
Satan. If you really don't know this, he's got you.

I don't believe in "Satan". But if it gives you purpose in life and solace in the face of the inevitability of death, and it helps you to live your life in a morally sound way, then believe that your "Satan" character as "got" me by all means. I am unaffected. You go for it.

@galveston75 said
Satan. If you really don't know this, he's got you.

Let me see if I have this right. Satan leads a war against god and loses. Then he is exiled from the Celestial North Korea and given his own domain. Sounds like he got the better of the deal.

So now getting back to the thread. Please check this out and again please read the scriptures....

Is the Devil Real?

"Yes, the Bible teaches that Satan the Devil is, indeed, a real person. Critics of the Bible, however, scoff at such a portrayal of the Devil. Satan, they say, merely represents the principle of evil that resides in humans.

Should we be surprised by the confusion regarding Satan’s true identity? Not at all. To illustrate: A criminal might wipe his fingerprints from a crime scene so that he may conceal his identity and thus continue his illegal activity undetected. Similarly, Satan is a criminal mastermind who is content to operate behind the scenes, promoting moral corruption. Jesus clearly identified Satan as the one responsible for the evil state of human affairs. Jesus called Satan “the ruler of this world.”​—John 12:31.

Where did the Devil come from? Originally created as a perfect spirit creature in heaven, this outlaw angel made himself the Devil when he became obsessed with the desire to have humans worship him instead of God. The Bible records a conversation here on earth between Satan and Jesus in which the Devil revealed his selfish ambition. Satan tried to get Jesus to “fall down and do an act of worship” to him.​—Matthew 4:8, 9.

Likewise, in conversations with God, as recorded in the book of Job, Satan revealed his motives. He would stop at nothing to influence humans to renounce God.​—Job 1:13-19; 2:7, 8.

Consider: If Satan conversed with Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, how could Satan possibly be merely the principle of evil that resides in others? There is absolutely no evil in God or his Son! Clearly, then, Satan is a real person​—an evil spirit creature who has no respect for Jehovah or for Jesus.

The corrupt state of human affairs bears testimony to the existence of a real Devil. The nations of this world let surplus food rot while their hungry populations starve. The nations store up weapons of mass destruction for mutual annihilation. They pollute earth’s environment. Yet, most people are blind to the source of such hateful, self-destructive behavior. Why?

The Bible reveals that Satan “has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.” (2 Corinthians 4:4) To manipulate humanity, Satan employs an invisible organization. He is “the ruler of the demons.” (Matthew 12:24) Just as a boss of an organized crime ring can run a large illegal empire without revealing himself to all those involved, so Satan uses his insidious organization of wicked angels to control masses of people who remain largely unaware of his role or influence.

How thankful we can be that the Bible unmasks the Devil and exposes his organization! We can thus take steps to resist the Devil’s influence. The Bible admonishes us: “Subject yourselves . . . to God; but oppose the Devil, and he will flee from you.”​—James 4:7. Watchtower 10/09

So since the bible clearly says that Satan is the ruler of this world at this time and he has control of practically everything, he uses his influence over most religions also. He has done a very good job of confusing religions on what they teach and promote and through the time since Jesus was here, Satan has done exactly what Jesus warned of and that is false teachings will be brought into the religions that say they follow Jesus. The false paganistic teachings would include the trinity, a real physical burning hell fire that bad people will burn forever, the cross, Christmas, etc, etc.
So Satan is behind all false things religions teach and even on top of that he's now managed to get many churches to accept ones that practice homosexuality which is completely condemned in the bible.

@galveston75 said

Similarly, when the Bible says that God “spoke to Moses face-to-face,” it means that God conversed with Moses intimately. (Exodus 4:​10, 11; 33:11) Moses did not actually see God’s face, for the information he received from God “was transmitted through angels.” (Galatians 3:​19; Acts 7:​53) Still, Moses’ faith in God was so strong that the Bible described him as “seeing the One who is invisible.”​—Hebrews 11:27.

Not a very convincing explanation I'm afraid.

I'm aware of such passages that speak of the law being given through angels, but in this instance, Exodus is quite clear that Moses speaks face to face with God. (Contradicting John). Where is the evidence that this just means they spoke intimately? Your copy and paste links to Exodus 4:10 and 11;3311 but I don't see how that supports the argument:

'But Moses pleaded with the Lord, “O Lord, I’m not very good with words. I never have been, and I’m not now, even though you have spoken to me. I get tongue-tied, and my words get tangled.' - And "The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend."

Don't we speak to friends, face to face?!

@galveston75 said
So now getting back to the thread. Please check this out and again please read the scriptures....

Is the Devil Real?

"Yes, the Bible teaches that Satan the Devil is, indeed, a real person. Critics of the Bible, however, scoff at such a portrayal of the Devil. Satan, they say, merely represents the principle of evil that resides in humans.

Should we be surprised ...[text shortened]... many churches to accept ones that practice homosexuality which is completely condemned in the bible.

The book of Job was created pre-captivity. Satan did not become designated evil until Judaism was melded with Zoroasterism during captivity.

What can we learn about Satan from this earliest book of Job.

1.) The name means advasary. Satan is a slanderer. In the book Satan slanders man towards God. The slanderer also slanders God - condemning God's heart, motive, fairness. All this slandering is his being an advasary to God in God's universal kingdom.

Of course caissadr doesn't regard it EVIL to slander God. So she thinks the evil Satan has not yet appeared in the Bible.

Of course caissadr thinks the concept of God deserves to be unseated, blasphemed, opposed by some adversarial creature. So she doesn't regard this adversarial activity of slandering God and His servants as evil.


2.) Satan the slanderer against God and man is among the sons of God. The sons of God are angelic beings. Since Job says the sons of God were rejoicing at the creation of the world (Job 38:7) they are creatures created anterior to humans or their earth.

3.) This early angelic being or one of the sons of God in those days had access with the other angels to appear before God and have his say.

Then one day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, Satan also came among them. (Job 1:6)

He comes expected to be a trouble maker.

And Jehovah said to Satan,, Where have you come from ?

Since Satan is an adversary in God's kingdom it is expected that he would NOT want to come to a council of God's angels to consult with God. Why should he, if he is opposed to the rulership of God?

Caissadr doesn't think it is evil to reject the authority of God. So she sees no evil YET in this description of Satan. She says he only becomes evil after the Babylonian Captivity.

Interestingly the Babylonian Captivity is told us in the same Old Testament books that tell us of the Exodus from Egypt and the conquest of Canaan. Selectively Caissadr picks what she wants to regard as true history.

4.) Satan challenges God to let him have God's servant Job to destroy him.

Of course Caissadr doesn't see any evil is the destroying of God's servants. So for her Satan doesn't become evil in the Bible until latter.

5.) Satan cannot do anything unless God allows him. He is like a mad dog on a leash. God, to prove a point to all the observing hearers of Satan's slanders, gives him some slack to do his utter wicked evil deed of robbing Job first of his family and possessions and secondly of his physical health.

Job SUFFERS to the extreme under the attack of Satan.

Caissadr doesn't care if God's righteous servants are attacked this way. SO for caissadr, why, Satan doesn't become evil until latter when the Jews allegedly become concerned about Zoroaster.

6.) In the end Satan, the adversary and slanderer (Devil means slanderer, though devil is not mentioned in Job ) is totally exposed as a LIAR concerning God's being.

Of course to Caissadr, to be exposed as a LIAR against God's nature is not evil. So then, Caissadr puts on scholarly sounding pretense that it is not until LATTER in history Satan becomes evil.

In the meantime what we are told about Satan in Job is pretty consistent with what we are told about Satan in the latter books of the Bible. That is in view of the points above.

We learn more. But we do not learn the OPPOSITE concerning him, like he JUST became evil latter.

@sonship said
What can we learn about Satan from this earliest book of Job.

1.) The name means advasary. Satan is a slanderer. In the book Satan slanders man towards God. The slanderer also slanders God - condemning God's heart, motive, fairness. All this slandering is his being an advasary to God in God's universal kingdom.

Of course caissadr do ...[text shortened]... learn more. But we do not learn the OPPOSITE concerning him, like he JUST became evil latter.

And your god in Job is even more evil than you portray Satan to be.
He deliberately allows evil to be done to Job.

@sonship said
What can we learn about Satan from this earliest book of Job.

1.) The name means advasary. Satan is a slanderer. In the book Satan slanders man towards God. The slanderer also slanders God - condemning God's heart, motive, fairness. All this slandering is his being an advasary to God in God's universal kingdom.

Of course caissadr do ...[text shortened]... learn more. But we do not learn the OPPOSITE concerning him, like he JUST became evil latter.

And the huge point she is missing as well as all that don't believe in the devil and this is exactly what the devil wants. As long as they don't even give it a chance and really look into what the bible is trying to tell ones like her, they remain blind and will never understand any of it.
If the devil were stupid enough to just walk down the street in plain sight and announce himself and do all the bad he can easily do, then yes obviously all would now believe in his existence and all would then run like fools to their local church begging for God to protect them.
But they don't get he has been around for ions of time and knows every angle of evil they can't even imagine, and he knows more then anyone on earth of how to hide in the dark and make fools believe he isn't real.

@caissad4 said
And your god in Job is even more evil than you portray Satan to be.
He deliberately allows evil to be done to Job.

You are not even starting to get the reason for that happening do you? Instead of some knee jerk reaction why not take your time and read the whole account and try to look at the huge picture there and see God's view of this and why he let this happen and what Jobs reward was for his faithfulness to his creator, and what that president that was set for Satan's challenge to God..........

@galveston75 said
And the huge point she is missing as well as all that don't believe in the devil and this is exactly what the devil wants. As long as they don't even give it a chance and really look into what the bible is trying to tell ones like her, they remain blind and will never understand any of it.
If the devil were stupid enough to just walk down the street in plain sight and a ...[text shortened]... he knows more then anyone on earth of how to hide in the dark and make fools believe he isn't real.

Good thing that Satan only exists in your mind, not in mine.

@caissad4 said
Good thing that Satan only exists in your mind, not in mine.

Well OK then. You better hope that I'm the fool. I think you are from Texas if I remember right? So from one Texan to another good luck on this.

@galveston75 said
So now getting back to the thread. Please check this out and again please read the scriptures....

Is the Devil Real?

Do you attribute to "the Devil" all deviations from the Biblical interpretations propagated by JW organization?

@galveston75 said
Well OK then. You better hope that I'm the fool. I think you are from Texas if I remember right? So from one Texan to another good luck on this.

Thank you.

@caissad4 said
Thank you.

You are very welcome....

@fmf said
Do you attribute to "the Devil" all deviations from the Biblical interpretations propagated by JW organization?

Well of course. You are so smart dude....