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-Removed-Originally posted by divegeester (Page 7)
"So what do you think of one Christian telling another Christian they "deserve to burn in hell"? .. For eternity no less..."
If you're a believer in Christ, divegeester, quietly ignore any and all false statements made about you and/or your family members by others in your periphery; and pray for them. "29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. 30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." (Ephesians 4:29-32) / "JS, thanks for your insightful comments on the role the "online disinhibition effect" plays and for your kind words. In the context of the brevity of life on planet earth I choose to give the benefit of doubt, forgive and forget and move on. -Bob" Thread 163726 [Page 2]
Originally posted by divegeester (Page 10)
Why are you counselling me when I'm the one being attacked by RJHinds? Are you afraid to come out and address him personally?
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You asked an honest direct question; I replied. If RJHinds or anyone else asks an honest direct question I'll reply to them.
As a believer in Christ it's my responsibility to present accurate biblical information as opportunities are presented.
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Originally posted by moonbus
I would ask you to consider that the Bible did not exist until the 4th c. How did early Christians keep the faith alive until then?
The book of Acts says that they continued in the teaching and the fellowship of the apostles. That is how they kept the faith alive.
"And they continued steadfastly in the teaching and the fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and the prayers." (Acts 2:42)
I would say this continuing in the apostles' teaching and their fellowship kept the faith alive, along with the fact that the Holy Spirit is living and ever present in those who receive Christ.
By praying in small communities. "The Church" during those times consisted of "wherever two or more are gathered in my name" and it was they who kept the faith. If they could do it, you can, too.
It could not be recommended enough to gather in small groups. Companions in prayer and fellowship is crucial.
However, look closer at the matter of "two or three gathered together in My name." What Jesus promised was that where two or three were gathered together in His name they would have His presence.
"For where there are two or three gathered into My name, there am I in their midst." (Matt. 18:20)
He did not say every gathering of two or three is a church. He did not say that. He said a gathering of two or three might enjoy Him being present. Him being present though does not immediately qualify every gathering of two or three to be church.
To have His presence is wonderful. And what mutual edification and prayers can be accomplished in small groups? Much benefit is in us gathering in twos and threes with His precious presence.
But we cannot say that just because we have His presence we have a church. Otherwise in verse 16 and 17 He would not say for the two or more to tell their problem to the church.
"Moreover if your brother sins against you, go, reprove him between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
But if he does not hear you, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to hear the church also ... " (15-17a)
If every gathering of two or more with His presence is a church then there would be no need for two or more to take the problem to the church. This shows that we should not regard every gathering with the Lord's presence as a church.
Case in point:
In the first local church in Jerusalem the believers met in the temple and from house to house (Acts 2:46; 5:42) . Since Peter preached and alternately five thousand and four thousands people were saved, it is realistic to recognize that they probably met from house to house in hundreds of houses in Jerusalem.
Some gatherings in houses may have been two or three, some more. Yet each gathering was no called a church. The Holy Spirit continues to refer to the church [singular] in Jerusalem.
"But Saul was devastating the church, [singular] entering house after house; and dragging off men and women, he delivered them to prison." (Acts 8:3)
Every house meeting was not a church.
All the house meetings together comprised the church [singular] in Jerusalem.
"And Saul approved of his killing. And there occurred in that day a great persecution against the church [singular] which was in Jerusalem; ... " (Acts 8:1)
1.) It can be very profitable for believers to gather home by home in groups of two or more with the presence of Christ.
2.) Any and every gathering should not declare itself a church so that in one city there are more than one church [singular] for the city.
So there is a balance in the way ordained by God.
God sees one church for one city, though many gatherings of two or more are there with the Lord's presence.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyDo you think RJHinds is a believer in Christ who is fulfilling his responsibility in this matter in the same way as you are?
You asked an honest direct question; I replied. If RJHinds or anyone else asks an honest direct question I'll reply to them.
As a believer in Christ it's my responsibility to present accurate biblical information as opportunities are presented.
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Originally posted by sonshipIt is obvious that the early churches received instructions from the apostles in person and by letter for some of those letters became part of the canon of scripture that we call the Holy Bible. Al least some of thosein the churches must have seen the shroud and/or the sudarium to bolster their faith.I would ask you to consider that the Bible did not exist until the 4th c. How did early Christians keep the faith alive until then?
The book of [b]Acts says that they continued in the teaching and the fellowship of the apostles. That is how they kept the faith alive.
"And they continued steadfastly in the teaching and the f ...[text shortened]... e church for one city, though many gatherings of two or more are there with the Lord's presence.
Originally posted by RJHindsYes, I am referring to the Biblical canon.
You must be referring to the canon of scriptures that was formed into the Holy Bible we have today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon
Obviously all the biblical scriptures existed before that time. Of course they did, just not all in one place, and there were many other scrolls held to be sacred by one or another sect or one or another theologian (such as Origen) but which were later excluded from the canon. This was a long process and was not generally agreed to have been completed until about 400 AD. So, early Christians were mostly working with only partial documentation, and partially corrupted documentation.
Which means that oral teachings going back to the apostles must have been primary and the written teachings secondary.
Nothing in the NT suggests that Jesus thought of his teachings as being preserved and passed on in writing.
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Originally posted by moonbusThat may be a reason why it took so long for the mystery of the trinity of God to be declared a doctrine of Christianity.
Yes, I am referring to the Biblical canon.
[b]Obviously all the biblical scriptures existed before that time. Of course they did, just not all in one place, and there were many other scrolls held to be sacred by one or another sect or one or another theologian (such as Origen) but which were later excluded from the canon. This was a long process and ...[text shortened]... the NT suggests that Jesus thought of his teachings as being preserved and passed on in writing.[/b]
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Originally posted by moonbus
Nothing in the NT suggests that Jesus thought of his teachings as being preserved and passed on in writing.
That's rather ridiculous moonbus.
Here is where He prayed for His word to be preserved. Read all of Christ's prayer in John 17.
"For the words which You gave Me I have given to them, and they received them and knew truly that I came forth from You, and they have believed that You sent Me. .... I ask concerning them; [the apostles, the disciples] I do not ask concerning the world, but concerning those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours; ... And I do not ask concerning these only, but concerning those also who believe into Me through their word."
"[T]heir word" is the word which Jesus gave to them. He is praying for the continued transmission of His word on to others who receive it as the word of the apostles.
Whether by oral reciting or by writing, Jesus desired the word He gave to the apostles would be faithfully passed on.
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Originally posted by FMFSimilarly, I also could probably not substantiate for a sty of pigs exactly why they should get cleaned up and attend church, either.
Can you substantiate this paranoid nonsense that you posted on page 1?...
[b]But then Googlefudge launched into a massive attack upon me[i] for even considering to propose such a ridiculous idea and he wasn't going to respect me no matter what and even that yes, Christians were "dangerous" and should be opposed at every opportunity and with every breath.[ ...[text shortened]... eir place" and the persecution stepped up to even more than it was before.[/b]
No you cannot.[/b]
Because it's who they are.