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Originally posted by moonbusOf course, and I agree, but I still do not find "the church" when talking about your local, community church to be the biggest impediment to finding God. Of course, the fashion now is to apply this sort of criticism to anyone's church but one's own, but this is why choice and freedom of religion exist: so that everyone can find their own "church" and not be hindered by "someone else's" church.
I would ask you to consider that the Bible did not exist until the 4th c. How did early Christians keep the faith alive until then? By praying in small communities. "The Church" during those times consisted of "wherever two or more are gathered in my name" and it was they who kept the faith. If they could do it, you can, too.
What "the Church" became late ...[text shortened]... our eye on the summit, don't worry about how much dust the others are throwing up along the way!
And yes, what's amazing is when you discover that the best place to see examples of "the seven deadly sins" in practice is at church. It doesn't mean, though, that this is the fault of the church. One should always be mindful of one's own sins first.
-Removed-Originally posted by divegeester
"I accept that, sincerely. Here then is my direct question:
Do you believe that I deserve to burn in hell for eternity because I reject the doctrine of burining in hell for eternity?"
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None of us "deserve" anything now or ever from Sovereign God. At the moment of faith alone in Christ alone we receive the permanent grace gift of relationship with God and eternal life with Him in heaven. After salvation, He expects us to grow to maturity by acquiring the Mind of Christ which enables us to understand absolute truths revealed in the Word of God; it does not teach that any Member of God's Royal Family will be "burining in hell for eternity". Alternative: remain an infant.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyNone of us "deserve" anything now or ever from Sovereign God. At the moment of faith alone in Christ alone we receive the permanent grace gift of relationship with God and eternal life with Him in heaven. After salvation, He expects us to grow to maturity by acquiring the Mind of Christ which enables us to understand absolute truths revealed in the Word of God; it does [b]not teach that any Member of God's Royal Family will be "burining in hell for eternity". Alternative: remain an infant.
So is your fellow Christian ~ RJHinds ~ wrong in this matter? And is he "remaining an infant" because of his stated belief about divegeester deserving to burn in Hell?
Originally posted by SuzianneI find Grampy Bobby's evasive behaviour fascinating.
Aren't you the ones who asked him the question?
Why respond to someone else if you asked him the question?
In fact Christians here quite often cannot bring themselves to address each other about disagreements directly. I remember a few months back, you and josephw could not bring yourselves to confront sonship on the grotesque eternal torture ideology ["perfect justice"] that lies at the very heart of his Christian beliefs and he even admitted that knowing his 'opponents' will end up being tortured forever makes his Christian life "easier".
You and josephw remained silent and yet when I reiterated sonship's ideology [in the course of discussing it with him] both you and josephw tackled me for reiterating such a grotesque ideology. I find this kind of behaviour by you, josephw and Grampy Bobby and others very interesting.
So that's why I find it interesting how Grampy Bobby likes to kick passive aggressive sand in divegeester's face over and over again but has never shown any gumption in tackling RJHinds on his poisonous "teaching".
I wonder if it's just the way you are as people or does your religiosity have anything to do with it.
Originally posted by FMFI haven't noticed anything about sonship's description of the eternal torment doctrine that disagrees with what Christ taught.
I find Grampy Bobby's evasive behaviour fascinating.
In fact Christians here quite often cannot bring themselves to address each other about disagreements directly. I remember a few months back, you and josephw could not bring yourselves to confront sonship on the grotesque eternal torture ideology ["perfect justice"] that lies at the very heart of his Christ ...[text shortened]... der if it's just the way you are as people or does your religiosity have anything to do with it.
Originally posted by RJHindsWhen one is dealing with the most grotesque and depraved notion that the human imagination has ever dreamed up ~ the torturing of billions of people in burning agony for eternity for a thoughtcrime ~ I don't see how referring to the book one happened to get it from, or laying the blame for your personal ideology at the feet of some figure from human history, really cuts it as a legitimate excuse.
I haven't noticed anything about sonship's description of the eternal torment doctrine that disagrees with what Christ taught.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThere are certainly several Christians who only seem to air their doctrinal differences through third parties, which sometimes requires ideological and rhetorical contortions that can be intriguing to witness though questions probing them get stonewalled. Off the top of my head, I don't think there are any non-U.S. Christians in this loose group that divegeester is referring to. Interestingly, I think RJHinds is not a fully fledged member because he likes flobbing a bit of toxic spittle at other Christians from time to time over things like the age of the Earth and the occasional angel dancing, according to him, on the wrong part of the pin.
the in-group, seriously, there is an in-group?