@philokalia saidI don't believe there is no God. I didn't say the people in my question believe there is no God. The people in the question simply don't believe Jesus rose from the dead. Nevertheless, they find the Sermon on the Mount type stuff a good code for living.
If you believed there was no God, wouldn't you want to do so boldly and consciously, shedding off things cultural aspects that are part of untrue superstitions that you reject..?
@fmf saidAlright, so the question is...
I am asking the question that I posted. You don't have to answer it if you'd rather not.
If, as you claim, it' would "not intuitively make sense", does that mean you think they would be making a mistake?
It's an incomplete and worse question and it doesn't strike me as the best way to get to the heart of the question. There's no comment as to whether or not the universe is actually godless.
If there is no God and this is a fact, and you are dedicating tens of thousands of hours of your life to prayer, and are avoiding countless sins that you believe are flaws but are actually just facets of human nature, and you have pursued this middle path of chastity and endured suffering to achieve it... it would certainly seem like wasted time if, at the end, there is no God.
If there is no God, living in a God-centered lifestyle is foolish. If there is no God, it would make more sense to live a life of measured hedonism and self-aggrandizement. It could also be said that atheists who believe there is no God but who are playing very carefully by the rules of their culture and holding back their desires much like a religious person would are perhaps missing the point of life as well, unless it is a calculated move to avoid loss of face or greater pain through alienation.
But, ultimately, a godless universe is without purpose and without morality. It would mean nothing (just like a hedonistic life) to have lived as a monk, but it would definitely be a less fun and less glorious nothing than living in another way.
--- It's a really fun area to think about. I always think of Nietzsche when I get to this point. He is such a compelling writer.
@fmf saidI guess I'd have different answers from an agnostic or deist perspective but IDK.
I don't believe there is no God. I didn't say the people in my question believe there is no God. The people in the question simply don't believe Jesus rose from the dead. Nevertheless, they find the Sermon on the Mount type stuff a good code for living.
I don't feel like writing separate blocks of text about these things.
@philokalia saidWell, it's your prerogative to not answer. So be it.
Alright, so the question is...If, as you claim, it' would "not intuitively make sense", does that mean you think they would be making a mistake?
It's an incomplete and worse question and it doesn't strike me as the best way to get to the heart of the question.
1 edit
@philokalia saidThe people in my question have not said "there is no God" and they obviously aren't talking about things like "dedicating tens of thousands of hours of [their] lives to prayer" being part of their 'good code for living'.
If there is no God and this is a fact, and you are dedicating tens of thousands of hours of your life to prayer, and are avoiding countless sins that you believe are flaws but are actually just facets of human nature, and you have pursued this middle path of chastity and endured suffering to achieve it... it would certainly seem like wasted time if, at the end, there is no God.
@philokalia saidIf you ever decide to go back and answer my question, I'll take a look.
I had to modify it to make it a complete question that I think better gets to the point.
@philokalia saidIf you don't want to answer my question as it was posed, it's fine.
I guess I'd have different answers from an agnostic or deist perspective but IDK.
I don't feel like writing separate blocks of text about these things.
1 edit
@philokalia saidYou can't make my question go away by talking about how you wouldn't be like them if you were an explicit atheist, or about how "it would make more sense" [to you] if the people in the question were different.
If there is no God, living in a God-centered lifestyle is foolish. If there is no God, it would make more sense to live a life of measured hedonism and self-aggrandizement.
@philokalia saidIt sounds like you really need your religious beliefs in order to make sense of your life. Good for you if they give your life meaning and solace etc.
But, ultimately, a godless universe is without purpose and without morality.
@fmf saidOh geez, well, of course, if there was no God I am sure I could find a way to spend my time and have personal goals.
It sounds like you really need your religious beliefs in order to make sense of your life. Good for you if they give your life meaning and solace etc.
But if there is no god, there are just value systems people like. And there's no reason to really, fully believe in any of them. You die, and you become dust. There can be no universalized system.
And those who would buy so much into a universalized system are mistaken or some kind of sucker, IMO.
Obviously, there's no reason to revel in cruelty and be an evil person. But there's also no reason for me to not do exactly what I want in the relatively short-term to enjoy the things I want to enjoy.
Do you believe in morality? Like, in a meaningful, universal morality? I vaguely remember you admitting that morality is relative and then you just started trying to interrogate people about hell.
@fmf saidLOL, you ask bad, short, non-descriptive questions, and I believe you ask them that way because you like throwing it back into people's faces when they do not answer them exactly as you wanted them to eb done.
If you don't want to answer my question as it was posed, it's fine.
Would you like me to come up with a better question for you, a complete one, one that would be meaningful for the forum?
Would it be something like...
Given an agnostic person, and given the idea that we do not know if the universe has a God or not, how should they navigate morality and a relationship with God?
@philokalia saidYou'll just have to make do with your vague memory of it.
Do you believe in morality? Like, in a meaningful, universal morality? I vaguely remember you admitting that morality is relative and then you just started trying to interrogate people about hell.
@philokalia saidNo. My question was fine. Nevermind. So be it.
LOL, you ask bad, short, non-descriptive questions, and I believe you ask them that way because you like throwing it back into people's faces when they do not answer them exactly as you wanted them to eb done.
@philokalia saidThe question was fine and "meaningful" enough".
Would you like me to come up with a better question for you, a complete one, one that would be meaningful for the forum?