Why did Christ die?

Why is this religion stuff so hard to understand? Wouldn't there be more followers if God had made it easier? What's with all the hidden meanings and cobbleygoup all about. Why would anyone follow blindly what they don't understand? Blind faith?

Originally posted by smw6869
Why is this religion stuff so hard to understand? Wouldn't there be more followers if God had made it easier? What's with all the hidden meanings and cobbleygoup all about. Why would anyone follow blindly what they don't understand? Blind faith?

As far as the Christian faith is concerned, I have no idea what is meant by "blind faith".

It seems to me that those on the outside of the experience of Jesus look at the believers, shake their heads, and exclaim "How CAN you just have blind faith?"

To those who receive the Spirit of the resurrected Christ it is not at all easy to speak of "blind faith".

"the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor .15:45)

"Now the Lord is the Spirit. And where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom" (2 Cor. 3:17)

Jesus Christ, after His resurrection came to us in a form as "life giving Spirit" in which He can enter into our innermost being. And from the very kernel of our being Christ dispenses the life of God to us. This life is a spiritual life which mingles and unites with our life. This mingling takes place in the innermost part of our being.

"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)

Christ, the resurrected One Who comes to the believer as life giving Spirit unites and blends Himself with man's human spirit. The result is that the two spirits - the human spirit and the Holy Spirit Who gives life, become "one spirit" within the believer.

This experience is not "blind faith". The indwelling and life giving Spirit of Christ is the foretaste, the appetizer, the preview, and the downpayment of the full inheritance of God to come.

The Apostle John rightly says that we know that we abide in the realm of Christ because of the Spirit that He has given to us:


"And in this we know that He lives in us: By the Spirit that He gave us" (1 John 3:24)

As this life giving Spirit spreads to enfluence more and more of our living we are doubly reaffirmed that Christ is indeed alive and living in us. As His Lordship encreases within our daily living we are confirmed more and more that it is not we ourselves who are causing this transformation, but God Himself from within our hearts.

More and more of the writings of the apostles begin to make more and more logical sense to us as we progress down the same road of faith and experience.

Christ is born within through a little faith. Then Christ grows and grows within with a little more faith. This is faith with a certain amount of both external and internal confirmation.

Originally posted by jaywill
As far as the Christian faith is concerned, I have no idea what is meant by "blind faith".

Take two Christians. List all the things that each is convinced is true but the other does not believe in. One of them must be wrong about each given point and thus must have blind faith.
Or maybe the two are genuinely experiencing different things. This should worry you even more as it means that you cannot rely on your experience. The fact that you do must be blind faith as you are ignoring the obvious possibility that your experience could be wrong.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Take two Christians. List all the things that each is convinced is true but the other does not believe in. One of them must be wrong about each given point and thus must have blind faith.
Or maybe the two are genuinely experiencing different things. This should worry you even more as it means that you cannot rely on your experience. The fact that you do ...[text shortened]... be blind faith as you are ignoring the obvious possibility that your experience could be wrong.

It is true that we Christians have different opinions about many things. Perhaps there are not two disciples who agree on everything written in the Bible.

Where there is great agreement is in the major things concerning Christ being known experiencially. I do not have to sit around like you and wait until millions of Christians on the face of the earth have absolutely no varying interpretations of opinions about things concerning the Bible.

It does concern me that there are different opinions. But this concern is not to the point that I doubt what hundreds and thousands of testimonials have confirmed - mainly that Jesus Christ can be known today. He is not dead and gone, to the angst of some. He is indeed in a form in which He can enter and change lives.

Paul said "until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith, at the full knowledge of the Son of God, at full measure of the stature of the faith, no longer children tossed about by waves and every wind of teaching" [paraphrased from Ephesians 4:13,14)

Paul's concept here is that growth into maturity will eliminate different opinions that cause disunity. The maturity of growing into the full knowledge of the Son of God is therefore the answer to divisive opinions.

Though Christians are divided along many opinions because of immaturity in the growth of Christ, this does not cause great concern that the core experience of the living Son of God is to be doubted.

Originally posted by smw6869
Why is this religion stuff so hard to understand? Wouldn't there be more followers if God had made it easier? What's with all the hidden meanings and cobbleygoup all about. Why would anyone follow blindly what they don't understand? Blind faith?

I mean no disrespect, but i cannot follow your line of reasoning. Just too philosophical for me. Words that mean one thing in my vocabulary are used to mean something else in your explanation. One should not have to be a Biblical scholar to understand God! I find it very difficult and do believe that most followers just have blind faith.

Originally posted by smw6869
I mean no disrespect, but i cannot follow your line of reasoning. Just too philosophical for me. Words that mean one thing in my vocabulary are used to mean something else in your explanation. One should not have to be a Biblical scholar to understand God! I find it very difficult and do believe that most followers just have blind faith.

Faith is not blind. The bible is simple, and when understood, faith comes about. To me, faith is believing. The bible is God's message to the world. When a person is ready to read and believe it, then God causes the "increase", understanding, etc. There are fundamental truths which most Christians agree on, i.e., Christ paid for the sins of the world, God is good, the new birth, sin nature, new nature, etc. The differences that Christians disagree on are not cause to disbelieve, but having said that, it is not good for a person trying to understand, to look at two Christians disputing their points. This should be done privately, seeing it does not bring God glory. As to your point about blind faith, it is not something found in the bible. It is a clique. Look at it this way. The more I understand about God through His word, the more I admire Him and love Him, thus my faith "grows", my sinful nature is "put off" more and more, and the new nature becomes more a part of me. It is similiar to meeting a new friend. When you understand your friend, and get to know him/her more, you develop a trust. But man is not dependable like God, He will never break a promise, nor stop loving you, He is faithful, loving and powerful. full of wisdom and mercy, ready to forgive, etc.

Originally posted by jaywill
Though Christians are divided along many opinions because of immaturity in the growth of Christ, this does not cause great concern that the core experience of the living Son of God is to be doubted.

So if a Muslim comes to me and says he has experienced effectively the same thing as you (except he calls it Allah) then can we say that you are both experiencing the same thing but one of you is wrong about the name. But the name is a minor detail.
So is it blind faith that you attribute your experiences to a specific character called Christ.

Originally posted by twhitehead
So if a Muslim comes to me and says he has experienced effectively the same thing as you (except he calls it Allah) then can we say that you are both experiencing the same thing but one of you is wrong about the name. But the name is a minor detail.
So is it blind faith that you attribute your experiences to a specific character called Christ.

I don't know any Muslims who say that they know God intimately. I know of no Muslims who explain that God has come to live in them.

If you would like to produce a quotation from a Muslim saying that God has come to live within him I would be interested to see it.

You don't not play chess because Capablanca had one style and Petrosium had another. Do you?

That is not the best analogy. But I use it to show you that you don't have to be paralyzed for the rest of your life because different people said different things.

A Muslim and myself would certainly agree that there is God rather than there being no God. So in our agreement on that point you can't fault us for confusing you.

God will not force anyone to love Him. He holds the door open and says "You don't want me? There's your way out. You can go if you want to."

The "cage door" that you imagine is wide open. You don't have to receive Christ as the Son of God if you don't want to. You are not coerced.

You're free to say God doesn't exist because everyone didn't say the same thing. Some of us, however, have been convinced by Jesus otherwise.

Originally posted by twhitehead
So if a Muslim comes to me and says he has experienced effectively the same thing as you (except he calls it Allah) then can we say that you are both experiencing the same thing but one of you is wrong about the name. But the name is a minor detail.
So is it blind faith that you attribute your experiences to a specific character called Christ.

You are on a sticky wicket here. The question should be which model best fits the experience ? As jaywill is pointing out , the muslim model of God/Allah does not lean towards intimacy with God or having an explicit person relationship with God. Christianity explicitly talks about a living breathing God who is active amongst his followers and wants intimacy with us.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Take two Christians. List all the things that each is convinced is true but the other does not believe in. One of them must be wrong about each given point and thus must have blind faith.
Or maybe the two are genuinely experiencing different things. This should worry you even more as it means that you cannot rely on your experience. The fact that you do ...[text shortened]... be blind faith as you are ignoring the obvious possibility that your experience could be wrong.

Take two Christians(or scientists? ). List all the things that each is convinced is true but the other does not believe in. One of them must be wrong about each given point and thus must have blind faith.

Originally posted by smw6869
Why is this religion stuff so hard to understand? Wouldn't there be more followers if God had made it easier? What's with all the hidden meanings and cobbleygoup all about. Why would anyone follow blindly what they don't understand? Blind faith?

It's as complex as you want it to be. But note Christ said that little children sometimes get God more than adults. God's love is simple , and intellectualising about it can get in the way. "The kingdom of God belongs to such as these (little ones)".

Originally posted by knightmeister
It's as complex as you want it to be. But note Christ said that little children sometimes get God more than adults. God's love is simple , and intellectualising about it can get in the way. "The kingdom of God belongs to such as these (little ones)".

I agree with your sentiment, but that is not to say we are to remain ignorant, nor stop learning what God is like.

Jer 9:23-24
23 Thus says the LORD: "Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, let not the mighty man glory in his might, nor let the rich man glory in his riches;
24 But let him who glories glory in this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight," says the LORD.
(NKJ)

Originally posted by smw6869
Why is this religion stuff so hard to understand? Wouldn't there be more followers if God had made it easier? What's with all the hidden meanings and cobbleygoup all about. Why would anyone follow blindly what they don't understand? Blind faith?

When we make it easy, like telling people how to call on the name of Jesus - They object that it is simple minded and moronic.

"For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved ..."

When we therefore try to add some details to help people understand the plan of God as the Bible shows - Then they turn around and say it is too intricate and complicated.

"And to enlighten all that they may see what the economy of the mystery is, which throughout the ages has been hidden in God, who created all things ..."

So which are you concerned about? Do you wish that the gospel was made simple to you?

Or do you wish that it was more profound and gave you much to consider ?

I think one should start simple and get to know the living Lord. And then having learned to feed on His presence, then grow on in deeper understanding of the mystery of His will.

Aren't we instructed to "come to me as children...."

The mystery of faith starts there, the question of the purpose of dying on the cross is a more advanced question. Would my experiences of encounter with phenomena I call the holy spirit have been possible if Jesus hadn't laid his life down..... I don't think so.

To me the gift of the holy spirit required the scripture fulfiling mode of death, so that the living god is available for all - jews and gentiles. Yes other prophets before and after died, only one left the holy spirit.
G:-)