1. Joined
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    17 May '07 11:334 edits
    What are the commandments that Jesus wanted observed?
    or again
    What did Jesus say he wanted man to do?


    There is a tendency here to expect Jesus to be just another Moses. We have ten commandments from Moses. Now we expect commandment 11, 12, 13 ... from Jesus.

    "Tell us what to do like Moses did, Jesus" What now are the dos and don'ts from Jesus?

    So once again I point to John 15:4 - Abide in Me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itslf unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.

    I am the vine, you are the branches ..."


    Christ is resurrected and alive and living. He is in a form, a pneumatic form in which He can live in man's innermost being. He is in the form of the life giving Spirit - the PNEUMATIC Christ. That is the Christ who is enterable and who can enter into us.

    "The last Adam ... [Jesus Christ] BECAME ... a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45 my emphasis).

    As the life giving Spirit Christ can come into man. Then we are commanded to abide in Him. That is to remain in Him. That is to linger and dwell in the sphere of His living and real indwelling.

    He is the true vine with all the life flow from God. We are to be the branches grafted into this true vine. Then His life flows into us through this grafting.

    To believe into Him is to do the work which He commanded.
    You are asking what the Jews asked in John chapter 6:

    "Then they said to Him, What shall we do that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe in HIm whom He has sent." (John 6:28,29)

    This is another way of saying "Abide in Me and I in you."

    The chief commandment of Jesus is that we allow Him to come into our being and live in us. That is that we abide in His resurrected and pneumatic state as "life giving Spirit".

    Then we can say with the Apostle Paul "For me to live is Christ ..."

    The word abode in John 14:23 is the noun form of the word for "abide" in John 15: John 14:23 shows also that the Father and the Son desire to come to the believer in Christ and make a living abode in their personality:

    "Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, And My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)

    Then in the next chapter He teaches His disciples - "Abide in Me and I in you"

    The chief commandment of Jesus is that we have a MUTUAL abiding in Him and He in us in His resurrected state. All the other teachings and instructions are absolutely based first upon the believer in Christ being a living abode of the Father and the Son and remaining in a mutual abiding in God.
  2. Cape Town
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    17 May '07 11:44
    Originally posted by jaywill
    What was accompished on the cross. So very much. Why don't you get a good Bible Concordance out and look up every verse which mentions the cross and see what is taught about it?
    By answering the question are you admitting that you are included in the group: "all of you who do not think that Christ is the only way to God" or that you can't follow a thread?
  3. Joined
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    17 May '07 11:492 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    By answering the question are you admitting that you are included in the group: "all of you who do not think that Christ is the only way to God" or that you can't follow a thread?
    Not following the thread well is a problem. But not following the teaching of Jesus is, I think, more serious.
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    17 May '07 12:09
    Originally posted by whodey
    Ok kids. For all of you who do not think that Christ is the only way to God, why then did Christ say that he laid down his life for us? I mean, what was the purpose if there were a number of equal or better choices? Did he do it for kicks? If Christ were only but one of many prophets of God and nothing more, why did he lay down his life? For what?
    Presumably, if he said that, he believed he was the way to god. whether he was correct in this belief or not is another question entirely.

    --- Penguin.
  5. Joined
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    17 May '07 12:201 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    He was deluded.

    EDIT - I guess you're looking for Muslim and other theist responses; people who believe Jesus was a prophet or something, right?
    You might say that but you are more than welcome to put your 2 cents in the pot. I am simply showing what the Bible says concerning the cross, or more specifically, what the Bible says Christ says about the cross instead of attempting to proove what the Bible says is true in this thread. Your scenerio is but one of several possible answers, however.

    You think he was delusional. Perhaps even having delusions of grandeur? After all, he made such comments as, "Before Abraham was I am" and "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father", and "Go Baptise in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit". I mean, who does he think he is? Then again, he does not quite fit the mold of someone suffering of delusions of grandeur when he says things like, "If one wants to rule, one must first serve", or insisting on washing his disciples feet in order to show that he came to serve mankind rather than come to rule over them like some monster tyrant like a Jim Jones or David Koresh. You should also include his teachings in your judgement over him. Christ said to love your fellow man and even those who hate you. Crazy huh? Christ did not even allow Peter to draw a sword to defend him when they came to kill him.
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    17 May '07 12:251 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    [b]I suspect this is a red herring, but what do you think was accomplished that shows that Christianity is the only way to God?
    I think there is a BIG difference between saying that Christianity is the ONLY way to God and saying that Christ's sacrifice for ALL of humanity is the only say to God. For example, the Christian theology states that men of God before the time of the Messiah who died did not perish as a result of dying in the pre-Chrisitan world. How then could they be saved via Christianity? However, it is entirely possible that Christ's sacrifice was needed in the end to "save" them.
  7. Joined
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    17 May '07 13:17
    Jesus didn't say that no one comes to God except through Christianity. He said "No one comes to the Father except through Me."

    The word "Me" refers to Jesus.

    I think another way of saying this is - If anywhere at anytime someone comes to the Father, it will only be because they came through Jesus.

    And I think that that is somewhat different from saying that no one comes to God except through Christianity.

    That's my opinion on the verse in question, John 14:6.
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    17 May '07 14:21
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]What are the commandments that Jesus wanted observed?
    or again
    What did Jesus say he wanted man to do?


    There is a tendency here to expect Jesus to be just another Moses. We have ten commandments from Moses. Now we expect commandment 11, 12, 13 ... from Jesus.

    "Tell us what to do like Moses did, Jesus" What now are the dos and don'ts f ...[text shortened]... g abode of the Father and the Son and remaining in a mutual abiding in God.[/b]
    Perhaps you should try reading and understanding other people's posts. It would help lend credibility to your own.
  9. Joined
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    17 May '07 14:40
    Originally posted by whodey
    I think there is a BIG difference between saying that Christianity is the ONLY way to God and saying that Christ's sacrifice for ALL of humanity is the only say to God. For example, the Christian theology states that men of God before the time of the Messiah who died did not perish as a result of dying in the pre-Chrisitan world. How then could they be save ...[text shortened]... wever, it is entirely possible that Christ's sacrifice was needed in the end to "save" them.
    Now I'm less sure of your position. Are you not saying that the only way to God in these times is to declare oneself a Christian?
  10. Donationbbarr
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    17 May '07 18:061 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Ok kids. For all of you who do not think that Christ is the only way to God, why then did Christ say that he laid down his life for us? I mean, what was the purpose if there were a number of equal or better choices? Did he do it for kicks? If Christ were only but one of many prophets of God and nothing more, why did he lay down his life? For what?
    And why should we believe that Jesus said any such thing? Because it is written in some book? Jesus died because some people put him to death; there is no reason he had to die, unless you assume some dubious spiritual metaphysics that will contradict the supposition that God is omnipotent (and, hence, could have secured our general redemption without the brutal murder of his "son" ).
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    17 May '07 18:35
    Are there any other books/sources beside the bible that record Jesus' history? Basically, Do we know without a doubt that Jesus did infact exist?
  12. Joined
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    17 May '07 18:59
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Perhaps you should try reading and understanding other people's posts. It would help lend credibility to your own.
    I agree.
  13. Joined
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    17 May '07 21:13
    Originally posted by bbarr
    And why should we believe that Jesus said any such thing? Because it is written in some book? Jesus died because some people put him to death; there is no reason he had to die, unless you assume some dubious spiritual metaphysics that will contradict the supposition that God is omnipotent (and, hence, could have secured our general redemption without the brutal murder of his "son" ).
    Nothing is sure except death and taxes. Everything else is up in the air, so to speak.

    Having said that, this thread assumes that what is written in the Gospels is in fact the truth about the life of Christ.
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    17 May '07 21:211 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Now I'm less sure of your position. Are you not saying that the only way to God in these times is to declare oneself a Christian?
    You are putting me in the position of being God and for which I do not qualify. However, I can tell you what God has said through his word and that is that man is saved via the sacrifice of his Son on the cross. Christ overcame death, hell, and the grave for ALL of mankind. This is what was accomplished on the cross, or at least according to the Bible.

    I have many questions awaiting to be answered by God. What of those who have never heard of Christ? What of those who have heard but not been told the truth about him? What of those who do not have the oppurtunity or ability to accept or reject him etc.? All I will say is that I believe God to be a just judge and one in which will take such problems into consideration. Nevertheless, those who make it do so because Christ has the power of death that once had power over us.
  15. Joined
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    17 May '07 21:301 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    You didn't really answer the question.

    I see this as the key phrase:
    teach them to observe all the commandments I gave you

    What are the commandments that Jesus wanted observed?
    or again
    What did Jesus say he wanted man to do?
    While you're on the admonition to improve "credibility" through reading comprehension, isn't "teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you ..." rather self explanatory?

    " ... observe all things ... whatever I commanded you ..." (See Matt. 28:20)

    Which part of that phrase do you not understand?
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