1. Subscribersonhouse
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    02 Sep '08 09:46
    I just read the history of the religious wars following the edicts of Martin Luther, directly responsible for the deaths of 1/3 of the population of Germany in the mid 1600's. The Peasants war a hundred years earlier caused over 100,000 deaths. And on and on throughout the ages. Doesn't that tell you ANYTHING about your god?
    Why doesn't it tell you, there is something wrong here, why didn't your god come down and say to them all, you are killing people by the millions in MY name, no way. That clearly never happened, so what is going on with that, people supposedly worshiping the same god killing each other by the millions in the name of that god. This goes way beyond the bounds of the normal rationale, god gave us free will.
    I can't see the use of the free will card as being anything close to valid under those kind of conditions. Why does it not say to you, maybe there is something wrong with these religions themselves at the very core? Some fundamental untruth to the entire enterprise. Like maybe there was no god involved at all in the inception of these religions. So give me your best shot to explain this all away.
  2. DonationPawnokeyhole
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    02 Sep '08 09:50
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I just read the history of the religious wars following the edicts of Martin Luther, directly responsible for the deaths of 1/3 of the population of Germany in the mid 1600's. The Peasants war a hundred years earlier caused over 100,000 deaths. And on and on throughout the ages. Doesn't that tell you ANYTHING about your god?
    Why doesn't it tell you, there ...[text shortened]... ll in the inception of these religions. So give me your best shot to explain this all away.
    Let's hope God has a refined sense of irony.
  3. Subscribersonhouse
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    04 Sep '08 03:20
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    Let's hope God has a refined sense of irony.
    Interesting nobody wants to take up the gauntlet on this one. It must be a taboo subject.
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    04 Sep '08 03:33
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I just read the history of the religious wars following the edicts of Martin Luther, directly responsible for the deaths of 1/3 of the population of Germany in the mid 1600's. The Peasants war a hundred years earlier caused over 100,000 deaths. And on and on throughout the ages. Doesn't that tell you ANYTHING about your god?
    Why doesn't it tell you, there ...[text shortened]... ll in the inception of these religions. So give me your best shot to explain this all away.
    I would expect the regular argument that god is giving people free will, etc..

    It amazes me the amount of reverence people hold for luther though. He advocated genocide in no significantly smaller way than Hitler did after all, but most people don't remember that item of history either by choice or because it's just not taught in Sunday school.
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    04 Sep '08 03:56
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I just read the history of the religious wars following the edicts of Martin Luther, directly responsible for the deaths of 1/3 of the population of Germany in the mid 1600's. The Peasants war a hundred years earlier caused over 100,000 deaths. And on and on throughout the ages. Doesn't that tell you ANYTHING about your god?
    Why doesn't it tell you, there ...[text shortened]... ll in the inception of these religions. So give me your best shot to explain this all away.
    Why would this necessarily go beyond "God gave us free will"? What if it's really "free will"?
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    04 Sep '08 04:34
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    I would expect the regular argument that god is giving people free will, etc..

    It amazes me the amount of reverence people hold for luther though. He advocated genocide in no significantly smaller way than Hitler did after all, but most people don't remember that item of history either by choice or because it's just not taught in Sunday school.
    this is news to me, he was taught to me in history as a hero. even the schools aren't correct i guess, my teacher WAS a christian
  7. Subscribersonhouse
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    04 Sep '08 05:202 edits
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    this is news to me, he was taught to me in history as a hero. even the schools aren't correct i guess, my teacher WAS a christian
    Maybe you should research it a bit deeper. He was singlehandedly responsible for the killing of 1/3 of the entire population of Germany in the mid 1600's. You ever hear of the 30 year war? I was his doctrines that led to that war. Directly. It is perfectly clear if there was not a Martin Luther, there would not have been the 30 year war and others not quite as devastating.
    So my point is, enough with the 'free will' card. There has to be a limit to that. What if ML caused the deaths of every human on the planet, what would the last surviving christian say then? "It must be god's will because he gave us 'free will'?
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    04 Sep '08 08:52
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I just read the history of the religious wars following the edicts of Martin Luther, directly responsible for the deaths of 1/3 of the population of Germany in the mid 1600's. The Peasants war a hundred years earlier caused over 100,000 deaths. And on and on throughout the ages. Doesn't that tell you ANYTHING about your god?
    Why doesn't it tell you, there ...[text shortened]... ll in the inception of these religions. So give me your best shot to explain this all away.
    because he doesn't tell us anything anymore. he did tell us be nice to each other, remember the JC dude?


    anything hummies do is their own responsibility(and because of their own stupidity). God has nothing to do with it.
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    04 Sep '08 12:45
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    this is news to me, he was taught to me in history as a hero. even the schools aren't correct i guess, my teacher WAS a christian
    I won't post a link here since I would guess it's against the rules to post anti-semitic crap here, but search for "On the Jews and Their Lies" - a book Martin Luther wrote towards the end of his life. I think the title should give you a hint as to how wonderfully loving the contents are.

    He advocates burning all synagogues, removing any right to travel, any right to have their own faith, etc...

    In have to admit I looked briefly at the text again and can't find a reference to advocacy of genocide per se, but it is an anti-semitic screed that would have made Hitler envious that he didn't write it himself.
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    04 Sep '08 12:50
    People has always have always religious wars. The old testament is a book of slaughter in the name of god. Crusaders, missionary works with genocides, religion is evil in this sense. And god doesn't care, god even courage people to go to wars in his name.

    Yes, this is taboo. Christians don't want to talk about wars in the name of god. They even get hostile when I mention religious wars.
  11. weedhopper
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    04 Sep '08 12:52
    Could be that Christians know that God gave us free will, and we have oft misused it--to make war, etc. God never promised to pull our cookies outta the fire every time we burned 'em.
  12. Subscribersonhouse
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    04 Sep '08 18:59
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    Could be that Christians know that God gave us free will, and we have oft misused it--to make war, etc. God never promised to pull our cookies outta the fire every time we burned 'em.
    Seems awful suspicious this god never sent a single word, like 'hey dudes, don't do this crap in MY name, you're on your own here' to the latest prophet/s in the area or whatever. The fact this god didn't do that seems ample proof it does not care or there is no god and the whole thing is just another man made device to kill.
  13. weedhopper
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    04 Sep '08 20:20
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Seems awful suspicious this god never sent a single word, like 'hey dudes, don't do this crap in MY name, you're on your own here' to the latest prophet/s in the area or whatever. The fact this god didn't do that seems ample proof it does not care or there is no god and the whole thing is just another man made device to kill.
    Suspicious-- perhaps. Proof? I do not concur.
  14. Subscribersonhouse
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    05 Sep '08 06:33
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    Suspicious-- perhaps. Proof? I do not concur.
    The ability of humans to rationalize away evidence like this to fit the pre-conceived dogma is astounding. Fight to the death if our leader says it comes from god, but there is nothing wrong with that concept according to most christians or islamists either for that matter. Both religions worship the god of Abraham but members of either group have no compunctions about killing people of the other faith and indeed islamists against other versions of islam or christians against other versions of christianity.
    This is an undeniable fact. Yet your god says in some instances not only is it allowed but commanded.
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    05 Sep '08 10:23
    Im responding to the original post and just for some context I'm a Christian.

    What you said about some religions being messed up - I couldnt agree more. The very fact that people would kill for their religion proves that. An example, fundamental christians in the middle east (not that there are very many of them🙂 ) go out and kill people of other religions in the name of their god, depsite their god's will being the very opposite...to love everyone, and treat them as you yourself would be like to be treated.

    I think in the above example a noteworthy point is why would God even bother defending them? If i was God and someone was misrepresenting my name and amplifying the decay of our world and society I wouldn't even consider saving them.

    What you said about why dosen't God come down and re-direct people...guess what! he did! and his name known to us as Jesus, and you know what? Some people still don't listen both back then, and now. So why send another Son to be cruicfied? it wouldn't acheive anything.
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