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Originally posted by KellyJayWhat of the man who lives a good life helping others and sacrificing his time for the better of this world and others? What God must they worship in your mind? What makes your God more important than another God?
Simply put God shows Himself to all the same way, there are those that acknowledge
and follow after God and those that do not. One piece of evidence will cause one
to believe the same piece will cause another to offer up excuses.
Kelly
Can you go to Heaven if you don't believe in YOUR God?
P-
Originally posted by KellyJaySo you agree with me that 'all that exists' cannot be generally taken as evidence for the existence of God, as it is subject to interpretation?
Simply put God shows Himself to all the same way, there are those that acknowledge
and follow after God and those that do not. One piece of evidence will cause one
to believe the same piece will cause another to offer up excuses.
Kelly
Your response, though reasonable, does not address the basic question of the thread.
God could presumably reveal himself in a way that would not be subject to interpretation and would be clear to all. But he apparently chooses not to.
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Originally posted by PhlabibitI don't put "my God" above anyone else', God is God, my hearts desire is that I
What of the man who lives a good life helping others and sacrificing his time for the better of this world and others? What God must they worship in your mind? What makes your God more important than another God?
Can you go to Heaven if you don't believe in YOUR God?
P-
belong to Him, He does not belong to me. I like what Lincoln said about this,
"Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right. "
Abraham Lincoln
With respect to what makes God important, He is the creator of all things, He
holds all things together by the power of His Word, there is no God beside Hiim.
Now if someone has a different god than that, let them be I don't care, they will
stand and fall as truth will reveal itself. If God didn't send His Son to live as one
of us, so we could be right with God by God's grace we will stand and fall as
reality makes itself known to all.
If you believe you are good enough for God's kingdom by what you have done with
your life, so be it. You can tell that to God, maybe He will agree with you, or not.
Kelly
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Originally posted by twhiteheadGod can as I pointed out to you show everyone the same thing, with some they
So you agree with me that 'all that exists' cannot be generally taken as evidence for the existence of God, as it is subject to interpretation?
Your response, though reasonable, does not address the basic question of the thread.
God could presumably reveal himself in a way that would not be subject to interpretation and would be clear to all. But he apparently chooses not to.
will respond one way others another. Does that mean that God hid something
from one and not another, not really. It is like when someone finds a wallet with
ID in it, the honest one will return money and all to the rightful owner, while others
will apply excuses to do what they will, "finders keepers" or some other excuse
to do what they want. I honestly believe that anyone who seeks God can and
will find Him, because I believe God to be faithful to His Word.
Does that mean that people's interpretation will come into play, yes without a
doubt. You want an excuse to not seek or follow after God you can paint the
truth any color you want to make it suit you. When we are judged it will be for
what we knew and what we did with it, right or wrong.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayYou are still not addressing the issues.
Does that mean that people's interpretation will come into play, yes without a
doubt. You want an excuse to not seek or follow after God you can paint the
truth any color you want to make it suit you. When we are judged it will be for
what we knew and what we did with it, right or wrong.
Kelly
Why has God revealed himself in such a way that only some people will see that revelation?
Originally posted by bbarrWhat a superb post! Seconded.
Unless God doesn't exist, in which case your beliefs are just delusions; no different than the schizophrenics wandering downtown Seattle. You see, simply claiming that your beliefs are based on the authority of God doesn't get you anywhere, since that claim is not one that any of us atheists are likely to accept, or even understand. And anyway, how can your ...[text shortened]... e, you're not like me, but more like a child repeating whatever inanity plagued his parents.
I am Buddhist, and does a Buddhist believe in a God? Well of course not.
Primitive man found himself in a dangerous and hostile world, the fear of wild animals, of not being able to find enough food, of injury or disease, and of natural phenomena like thunder, lightning and volcanoes was constantly with him. Finding no security, he created the idea of gods in order to give him comfort in good times, courage in times of danger and consolation when things went wrong. To this day, you will notice that people become more religious at times of crises, you will hear them say that the belief in a god or gods gives them the strength they need to deal with life. You will hear them explain that they believe in a particular god because they prayed in time of need and their prayer was answered. All this seems to support the Buddha’s teaching that the god-idea is a response to fear and frustration. The Buddha taught us to try to understand our fears, to lessen our desires and to calmly and courageously accept the things we cannot change. He replaced fear, not with irrational belief but with rational understanding.
The second reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is because there does not seem to be any evidence to support this idea. There are numerous religions, all claiming that they alone have god’s words preserved in their holy book, that they alone understand god’s nature, that their god exists and that the gods of other religions do not. Some claim that god is masculine, some that she is feminine and others that it is neuter. They are all satisfied that there is ample evidence to prove the existence of their god but they laugh in disbelief at the evidence other religions use to prove the existence of another god. It is not surprising that with so many different religions spending so many centuries trying to prove the existence of their gods that still no real, concrete, substantial or irrefutable evidence has been found. Buddhists suspend judgement until such evidence is forthcoming.
The third reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is that the belief is not necessary. Some claim that the belief in a god is necessary in order to explain the origin on the universe. But this is not so. Science has very convincingly explained how the universe came into being without having to introduce the god-idea. Some claim that belief in god is necessary to have a happy, meaningful life. Again we can see that this is not so. There are millions of atheists and free-thinkers, not to mention many Buddhists, who live useful, happy and meaningful lives without belief in a god. Some claim that belief in god’s power is necessary because humans, being weak, do not have the strength to help themselves. Once again, the evidence indicates the opposite. One often hears of people who have overcome great disabilities and handicaps, enormous odds and difficulties, through their own inner resources, through their own efforts and without belief in a god. Some claim that god is necessary in order to give man salvation. But this argument only holds good if you accept the theological concept of salvation and Buddhists do not accept such a concept. Based on his own experience, the Buddha saw that each human being had the capacity to purify the mind, develop infinite love and compassion and perfect understanding. He shifted attention from the heavens to the heart and encouraged us to find solutions to our problems through self-understanding.
But as the humourist Dave Allen always said; "May your god go with you!"
-m. 😉
Originally posted by twhiteheadI've told you the samething twice now and you are still not seeing it. God shows
You are still not addressing the issues.
Why has God revealed himself in such a way that only some people will see that revelation?
them the truth, they do with that what ever they want. If you are suggesting
that God should show them the truth in such a way as to force an opinion, or
force them into having to acknowledge God, no having it out there is enough and
now it is done in such away truth will win out, not force.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayIt is you that is still not getting it.
I've told you the samething twice now and you are still not seeing it. God shows
them the truth, they do with that what ever they want. If you are suggesting
that God should show them the truth in such a way as to force an opinion, or
force them into having to acknowledge God, no having it out there is enough and
now it is done in such away truth will win out, not force.
Kelly
The way God showed himself to you, forced an opinion. You believe in him.
The way God showed himself to me, forced an opinion. I do not believe in him.
He chose to show himself in such a way that you would believe in him and I wouldn't. The question is why?
We do not choose our beliefs. We see the evidence, we evaluate it, and we form an opinion. God has provided evidence that will be evaluated one way be some and another way by others (this is your explanation). Why did he not provide evidence that would be evaluated the same way by all? That is the question of the thread, and you are not answering it.
Originally posted by twhiteheadWe disagree, God showed Himself to each of us we came up with our opinions,
It is you that is still not getting it.
The way God showed himself to you, forced an opinion. You believe in him.
The way God showed himself to me, forced an opinion. I do not believe in him.
He chose to show himself in such a way that you would believe in him and I wouldn't. The question is why?
We do not choose our beliefs. We see the evidence, we e ...[text shortened]... valuated the same way by all? That is the question of the thread, and you are not answering it.
nothing was forced. He didn't MAKE me, He offered.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayHow could he have 'offered' if you didn't believe the evidence? You are not making sense. Either you found the evidence sufficient to believe in him or you didn't. I don't think you chose to find it sufficient. You were forced by the evidence.
We disagree, God showed Himself to each of us we came up with our opinions,
nothing was forced. He didn't MAKE me, He offered.
Kelly
Originally posted by twhiteheadI guess you didn't read my posts on the topic.
How could he have 'offered' if you didn't believe the evidence? You are not making sense. Either you found the evidence sufficient to believe in him or you didn't. I don't think you chose to find it sufficient. You were forced by the evidence.
Kelly
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Originally posted by twhiteheadA better question is this:
I did. Obviously I didn't understand you. Would you care to explain it again, in a way that I can understand?
Why does KJ believe and why do you not believe? For example, I came from a very religious family. My mother married into this family. She was left handed and suffered Nuns tyeing her hand behind her back and slapping her hand with a ruler.
She told my father to let us decide on our own as we grow, 'bless her'. Now I believe there may be something out there, but no man will ever know or be able to explain it.
I also feel the Bible had been translated too many times, and 'twisted' to fit the needs of those in charge upon translation. The Bible may have God's word, but it has a lot of Man's hand.
So the question is, what makes you believe, and what makes you not believe.
God doesn't reveal himself in my mind, or life reveals things that makes us either believe or not. What makes KJ believe so much... what makes you not believe?
It may be as simple as how you were raised and what you were taught. Both of you may be hardwired from birth to believe what you do today.
P-
Originally posted by twhiteheadI'll try.
I did. Obviously I didn't understand you. Would you care to explain it again, in a way that I can understand?
God shows us all truth.
We take that and run with it.
Some will accept it as is.
Some will reject it as is.
End the end, no one will have an excuse.
Those that want to find God will.
Those that don't care, and don't want to will not.
Those that want something other than God will get what they want.
Those that cannot be bothered won't be.
Those that like religion but not God will have their religion and will miss God.
Those that want a god that serves them instead of them serving God will miss out too.
Those that demand God meet them on their terms will be left wanting.
Only someone honestly seeking God will find Him.
Kelly