Why does Jesus piss people off?

Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnow
.... and there are even a few stupid people I like.

Hooray! Umbrage likes me!

Originally posted by epiphinehas
I'm speaking from experience, having once been an atheist.

Apparently not a very convinced one. I think, perhaps, you were always a theist deep down.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Hooray! Umbrage likes me!

It is hard to like people smarter than myself sometimes, but yes, I like you just fine Louis.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Of course God is real, how could you hate someone that much who isn't real? Have you ever felt that kind of hatred for a chair? Why does Jesus piss so many people off? Because He is real, and He is who He says He is.

I dislike Christians because of their intense political activity and their need to control others via the law.

Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnow
It is hard to like people smarter than myself sometimes, but yes, I like you just fine Louis.

Oh, I wouldn't say smarter - I just have a good publicist!

Originally posted by scottishinnz
The difference between hatred and not tolerating idiots is quite subtle - I wouldn't expect you to get it.

You are truly a superior human being.
Perhaps you could explain the difference!

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Apparently not a very convinced one. I think, perhaps, you were always a theist deep down.

Convinced by what? Atheism was the position I took because of an essential need to engage the world on its own terms; ideally without presumption. Nobody convinced me to be an atheist, it was a decision dictated by the subjective limits of my perception, from birth onward. If I were to be a genuine person, I needed the unadulterated experiential knowledge to captain my own ship, as it were, in a way meaningful to me. Requiring a fierce defense of intellectual freedom; the kind of freedom afforded those who hold nothing sacred.

It wasn't that I was already a 'theist' deep down, though I was a seeker. (I don't know if you would equate the two.) During solitudinous moments I would freely consider what Thomas Carlyle called the, "Everlasting Yea," and the, "Everlasting No." In private, the "the center of indifference" to either the 'Yea' or 'No' comes easy, to me representing the ultimate freedom of intellect and reason. I always pity those who never allow themselves to wonder.

As I considered nature - the infinite universe, thunderstorms, natural laws, intelligences of creatures, music, the exhilaration of the unknown - one day it clicked: the world had to have been created, and there had to be a purpose for my existence. Irrational conclusion, yes, but entirely rational to me in a compelling way. The prospect of a Creator God behind phenomena seemed to me the best game in town. After all, if there wasn't a Creator, and we were really in the middle of nowhere without purpose, at least my life would be lived stoically; thumbing my nose at the absurdity of nothingness.

That was way before I became a Christian (Christianity isn't entirely 'theistic' by the way), but definitely where my 'theism' arose. That's how I remember it. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

More later...

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Convinced by what? Atheism was the position I took because of an essential need to engage the world on its own terms; ideally without presumption. Nobody convinced me to be an atheist, it was a decision dictated by the subjective limits of my perception, from birth onward. If I were to be a genuine person, I needed the unadulterated experiential knowl ...[text shortened]... ow I remember it. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

More later...

At least you are being honest about things now.

It is possible to look at things that way - without God there is no meaning. However, I think that's a little sad - I don't know about you, but I have no trouble finding enough reason to continue existing in my own life, my friends, my family, the people that I touch and that touch me.

If I'm wrong, well, hey, God has to live with the fact that he created a universe without any definitive proof that he exists, and if you're wrong, well, you lived out your life on a lie.

Originally posted by Wayne1324
you said...
[b]Atheist will say anything in this forum just to be combative. Not all, but the majority. There is no civil discourse here.

To which I explained why I seemed combative.

The rest of the post was more or less for the op.[/b]

You're right of course. There are just too many people that believe too many different things to stereotype a particular group.

But, let me try to clarify what I think my "brother" is trying to say.
It is a Biblically based concept that the individual that denies or rejects God is an enemy of God by virtue of the fact that God is the creator of man and has sole claim over all men.
While it is true that people who don't believe in God do not openly, or even inwardly, "hate" God, some do.

I am no mans judge when it comes to their eternal destiny, but I will judge what they say and do. Just like everybody else.

Originally posted by josephw
You are truly a superior human being.
Perhaps you could explain the difference!

I don't hate any individual here - what would be the point. I do hate the way that some people refuse to think, or to consider any other viewpoint.

You have your strong beliefs, and that's fine. But there is a saying 'it's fine to have your own opinion, but not your own facts.' Basically, the vocal Christian majority will bang on about how they are morally superior etc, without any evidence that that is indeed the case (for example, homosexuality appears to be genetically controlled, but you still maintain it's "evil"😉, or will continue to try and propagate stupid, crazy ideas, like intelligent design despite a complete lack of evidence for it, and a huge body of work and supporting evidence for the contrary position (evolution).

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Of course God is real, how could you hate someone that much who isn't real? Have you ever felt that kind of hatred for a chair? Why does Jesus piss so many people off? Because He is real, and He is who He says He is.

I would not say that all nonbelievers hate Christ. Many simply are lost and do not know a better road to follow. Some are simply blinded spiritually etc. Christ said that those who do hate him do so because some hate the light that he brought into the world that exposed man's wickedness. In other words, they prefer their own wickedness and selfish pursuits over God's righteousness.

I would say that the Christian image of Christ, however, as being THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE is a rather exclusive statement. Exclusive statements such as this tend to breed resentment. If I were to make the same claims I am sure that I would draw fire as well. However, if I made such claims I would be in error as where when Christ says them he is merely stating the truth. The problem then becomes seeing this truth because without it I do not see a way in not becoming offended. However, how does one become offended at such a beloved historical figure who is famous for his mercy and love and goodness? It seems that ALL religions want a peice of him in some way. Thus, the only way out of this conundrum is to then say that his statement of exclusivity is either misinterpreted or fictional in origin.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Of course God is real, how could you hate someone that much who isn't real? Have you ever felt that kind of hatred for a chair? Why does Jesus piss so many people off? Because He is real, and He is who He says He is.

I think it began when I didn't get that pony I prayed for on my 10th birthday.
Pissed me off. The toothfarie always left a coin. the Easter Bunny a bit of chocolate, and Santa always had plenty of toys, BUT .. could Jesus come up with one lousy pony? Oh hell no, not for me. So that proved to me right there .. Jesus didn't care f-all about me.
About 3 mo. later, the kid down the road (the one that did get a pony) got thrown and broke his neck. Paralyzed for life.

Thank you Jesus!
................

If Jesus is real, then the words He left behind have meaning. If those words have meaning we need to take heed. To dismiss those words as divinely inspired, one must dismiss Jesus as God incarnate.
Easy to do.
Not logical.
The concept of God itself is not logical.
Requires faith in the unknowable and I can't find any .. and that's why Jesus pisses me off.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
I don't hate any individual here - what would be the point. I do hate the way that some people refuse to think, or to consider any other viewpoint.

You have your strong beliefs, and that's fine. But there is a saying 'it's fine to have your own opinion, but not your own facts.' Basically, the vocal Christian majority will bang on about how they ar ...[text shortened]... , and a huge body of work and supporting evidence for the contrary position (evolution).

Come on man! "Appears to be genetically controlled"?
Why on earth does everybody think we can be reduced to a pile of interacting chemicals and electrical impulses? For the love of God, can't you SEE that you are made of more than that?

It's late. I'm tired. Good night!

Originally posted by jammer
I think it began when I didn't get that pony I prayed for on my 10th birthday.
Pissed me off. The toothfarie always left a coin. the Easter Bunny a bit of chocolate, and Santa always had plenty of toys, BUT .. could Jesus come up with one lousy pony? Oh hell no, not for me. So that proved to me right there .. Jesus didn't care f-all about me.
About 3 mo. la ...[text shortened]... Requires faith in the unknowable and I can't find any .. and that's why Jesus pisses me off.

your logic really sucks.

Originally posted by whodey
I would say that the Christian image of Christ, however, as being THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE is a rather exclusive statement. Exclusive statements such as this tend to breed resentment. If I were to make the same claims I am sure that I would draw fire as well. However, if I made such claims I would be in error as where when Christ says them he is me ...[text shortened]... s to then say that his statement of exclusivity is either misinterpreted or fictional in origin.

The text is not misinterpreted; no matter how precise you get while translating the original Greek, Christ still explicitly claims He is the only way to God. A rather exclusive statement indeed, but were Christ God, would it not be an appropriate one to make? And that's the root of everybody's problem with him as you point out.

Imagine some indescript man, in all seriousness and humility, talking with you plainly about the future as if he'd been there. He's jovial, intelligent, somber, insightful, with an unsettling, piercing gaze, and giving off this great vibe that he somehow knows what you're all about but still digs you anyway. Some way or another it comes up in the course of your conversation where he says straight to your face, "(blank), I am the way, the truth and the life, and no one gets access to God except through me. No one. I am God's only begotten Son, equal with God in every way, and you will see me coming on the clouds of heaven with great power and glory. If you believe in God, believe in me. I have overcome sin, death and the entire world. Those who believe in me, out of their bowels will pour living water day and night. Believe in me and you will not die, you will live forever in my father's kingdom."

Yikes. Most people would immediately assume this guy has to be nuts. Wouldn't you? But... then the next moment he reaches over and touches your palsied arm and it is instantly restored. Hmmm... I wonder what happens now? No one expected that would happen. Nevertheless, these are the words and deeds that rocked the history and posterity of planet earth. God walked among us. Did he? Did he really? It sounds too good to be true, and no one wants to be disappointed like that.

'Theism' has to do with some invisible 'God Blob' conglomeration of infinite attributes floating in some metaphysical and untouchable realm. Christianity is not theism. Christianity is precisely the Hebrew translation of Jesus's name: 'God with us'. Our servant and our Lord all in one.