Originally posted by Rank outsider
Actually, the last time we discussed this, you accepted my argument that life could have meaning even in the absence of God.
A man or women certainly may make some purpose for their lives, being atheists. I probably pointed out that in the final analysis it would be a vanity.
The whole of the cosmos would expand into the dark freeze of the final end of the disorder of all matter. The suns all die. The stars all collapse to black holes. All life is gone and all atoms disperse into the end of energy.
It will have made no difference what you lived for in that eternal cold darkness of end of entropy.
But for your brief moment, yes, one may carve out something to keep him from total boredom.
Which rather confirms that not only did you not listen to what I had to say, you didn't even listen to what you said.
Negated by the re-affirmation of agreeing somewhat, stated above. Besides now, you had your shot. My last asking of this question was to cashthetrash.
It is his/her turn now. And I ask not for the individual only but for mankind as a whole. I might be happy with a reply to either at this point.
And the argument 'why does life have to have meaning?' is not said in resentment. It is a perfectly valid question that you need to answer. Otherwise you are falling into a syllogistic trap of saying:
Would you not say that if life has NO meaning then the detail of the natural world is absurd ? Look at the DNA molecule. Does it not cry out that there is a purpose ?
I think so.
1 Life must have a meaning.
It probably does given the tuning with which the universe permits us to exist.
It probably does given the intricate design of biological systems, especially human beings.
It probably does because Jesus Christ said it does. He said we mean much more than the birds and other lower creatures. So we must be meaningful to the Creator.
"Look at the birds of heaven. They do not sow nor reap nor gather into barns, yet your heavenly Father nourishes them. Are you not of more value than they." (Matt. 6:26)
Jesus did not say the birds were of no value. Rather He asked "Are you not of more value than they."
The answer to the rhetorical question should be "Yes". Human beings are of more
value than the lower animals.
Therefore there must be a purpose for them, God's purpose.
2 Life has no meaning without God.
Ultimately if no God, life is finally absurd.
How you lived, in the end, whether well or not well, whether good or bad, will mean nothing. The blackness of frozen space and scattered star dust will swallow up everything billions of years after the sun has swallowed up the planet earth in a red giant and humanity has long gone.
Have you heard the last movement to Gustav Mahler's 6th symphony, the Tragic ?
Gorgeous beauty struggles to remain alive only to finally be swallowed up in the ominous relentless drum beat of a funeral march.
All beauty is snuffed out with one final scream of death.
3 Therefore God must exist.
Now you are saying this.
You may choose to assure yourself that God does not exist.
But you will live in an emptiness and never have true deep peace.
You'll be as restless as the waves of the churning sea.
Peace comes when you are reconciled to God through justification of Christ's salvation.
You'll know that such great love has bestowed eternal meaning upon you.
Nothing can ever separate you from the love of God in Christ Jesus.
That is meaning enough to last you through eternity.
Which is the closest I have come to rationalising why you actually do believe in God.
I guess the most powerful reason why I believe in God is because I find that Jesus Christ is a believable
Person. Someone like Jesus Christ is belieavble - ALL things considered.
It is more difficult for me to believe there is no God then it is believing in the Son and the Father. However, I count this to be God's sheer mercy towards me.
Read aloud four chapters of the Gospel of John. I think you will see that this Person Jesus, is believable.
All things considered leading up to the arrival of Jesus - He is believable and what He spoke and did has the ring of wonderful authenticity.