1. Joined
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    25 Apr '13 18:001 edit
    There are many voices that, instead of openly voicing their bigotry, take a more roundabout course: they ask why do homosexuals want to get married anyway, why not be gay "in silence".

    Recently i stumbled across an article about gays in Romania (and how they have the same obligations but not the same rights, and how our politicians are a bunch of oxygen wasters). Among other things, they enumerate all the rights the gays miss because they cannot legalize their relations.
    Let everyone know if in your country there are some other rights they would get by marriage, or if what follows does not apply.

    - A gay person cannot inherit his/her partner's assets in case of death

    - Gays cannot visit their significant other in the hospital because they are not a part of their family. Spouses can.

    - When the spouse dies, the survivor can apply for a monetary help from the government for the funeral

    - Loans to buy homes are much easier to get since the salaries can be put together.

    - If one is in a coma, and had left instructions that he wishes to be disconnected from life support, but his family refuses to do so, his partner cannot override their wishes.

    - A spouse is not obligated by law to testify against their spouse. A gay person can be.

    - In Romania, when a spouse is unemployed, and the unemployment monthly checks are disconnected (don't know the exact term in the UK or US), one doesn't benefit from free medical insurance. However an employed spouse can take the other on his medical insurance as co-insured and as such the unemployed would get free medical care. Obviously the gays cannot do this.
  2. Cape Town
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    25 Apr '13 18:162 edits
    I assume its for more or less the same reason why everyone else does, although I am sure some of them want to simply to enforce their rights to do so. If someone told me I couldn't get married, I would be more likely to want to.
    I got married because:
    1. It was the socially acceptable thing to do.
    2. It was a form of mutual commitment between my wife to be and I.
    I went into it thinking the focus was on the couple getting married, but soon realised that marriage is actually more about the families involved and formalising the relationship both socially and legally.

    [edit]I wrote the above in response to your thread title before the post appeared.
    I must note that I did not consider any of the things you listed when I got married, but then us Zambian are notoriously bad at thinking ahead.
    I remember how shocked I was when I met a South African whose wife had just got pregnant and he started enquiring about schools. Us Zambians don't think about school fees until the first day of School.
  3. Joined
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    25 Apr '13 18:31
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I assume its for more or less the same reason why everyone else does, although I am sure some of them want to simply to enforce their rights to do so. If someone told me I couldn't get married, I would be more likely to want to.
    I got married because:
    1. It was the socially acceptable thing to do.
    2. It was a form of mutual commitment between my wife t ...[text shortened]... appeared.
    I must note that I did not consider any of the things you listed when I got married.
    yeh, sorry, i pressed enter by mistake when i created the thread.


    i have a theory that straight people don't even realize the above. i am sure no normal people will marry for the above reasons, and will not think about them when they haven't even contemplated marriage.

    but we are talking about a group of people, outcast by the society they are part of.

    Two persons have found each other, fell in love and they are happy. after a while they wish to live together and "formalize their relation" like you put it. they find out they are not allowed. they decide they really like each and they could do without that. years pass. they decide to get a home instead of paying rent, but wait, they can't do that because each of their salaries is just shy of the limit the bank will approve their loan. one of them is hit by a car and barely survives, the other is not allowed to visit him in hospital. they decide to start a family, they are not allowed, one because they are technically single people and the agency favors married couples, and most likely because they are gay.


    this continues until they die. they are two people that pay taxes, have the same obligations to obey the laws of their country, but they do not have the same rights. and people do not find anything wrong with denying them these rights. and they have the balls to involve jesus, a guy who is supposed to be the most flower power hippie ever.

    to me, this is a tragedy.
  4. Dublin Ireland
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    25 Apr '13 18:39
    Here's a thought for you.

    Homosexuality has been around for thousands of years.

    So, given that God made man in his image.....( allegedly )

    What happened? Did God make a mistake somewhere along the line?
    Was the programming of some human brains fouled up somewhere and
    suddenly we had gay people?

    It is said in the Bible in various places that God was sorry he made man
    especially in the early books of the old testament.

    Are we to take it then that God is not perfect?
    He made mistakes? Something went wrong
    in his creation and became an abomination?
  5. Subscribersonhouse
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    25 Apr '13 18:39
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    yeh, sorry, i pressed enter by mistake when i created the thread.


    i have a theory that straight people don't even realize the above. i am sure no normal people will marry for the above reasons, and will not think about them when they haven't even contemplated marriage.

    but we are talking about a group of people, outcast by the society they are part ...[text shortened]... guy who is supposed to be the most flower power hippie ever.

    to me, this is a tragedy.
    I wouldn't call it tragedy as much as criminal.
  6. Joined
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    25 Apr '13 18:41
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I wouldn't call it tragedy as much as criminal.
    they can be both.
  7. Joined
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    25 Apr '13 18:591 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    yeh, sorry, i pressed enter by mistake when i created the thread.


    i have a theory that straight people don't even realize the above. i am sure no normal people will marry for the above reasons, and will not think about them when they haven't even contemplated marriage.

    but we are talking about a group of people, outcast by the society they are part guy who is supposed to be the most flower power hippie ever.

    to me, this is a tragedy.
    In the UK, gay people have been able to enter into civil partnerships for some time, and have been accorded most of the same rights as married people. Soon, they will be able to get married, and apply the same terminology.

    It makes me proud to live in the UK in one way, but also intensely embarrassed.

    Nearly everyone objecting to allowing gay people to get married is doing so for religious reasons. But when asked if they only oppose it for religious reasons, they deny it furiously (as they know they will simply get back the response 'Why should we impose your religious beliefs on every gay person in this country?'😉.

    The arguments they have come up with in defense of their position have bordered on the absurd.

    One MP (in Parliament) actually said that you couldn't allow gay people to get married, as the legal definition of adultery referred to heterosexual sex outside of marriage. Oh right, that's the clincher why we shouldn't do it. There is no way we can possibly amend legislation to make it sexual relations outside marriage.

    Sorry, I retract what I said earlier. I should not have said 'bordered on'.
  8. Cape Town
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    25 Apr '13 19:161 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    they decide to get a home instead of paying rent, but wait, they can't do that because each of their salaries is just shy of the limit the bank will approve their loan.
    Although I am totally against discrimination against gay people (and thus think gay marriage should be allowed), I am wondering if there aren't ways around the loan issue. Suppose I have a girlfriend and we don't want to get married, cant we enter into some sort of dual responsibility contract with a bank and get a joint loan? I know banks allow joint bank accounts between people who aren't married. After all the loan issue is between the bank and the people involved and although a marriage provides a legal joint responsibility contract, I am sure a bank could come up with something similar for non married couples or groups.
    Here in SA not only is gay marriage legal, but when applying for residence they accept 'life partners' which means even heterosexual couples who have chosen not to get married may apply for residence as a couple, or if one is South African they may use it as a basis for applying for residence/citizenship.
  9. Subscribersonhouse
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    25 Apr '13 19:42
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Although I am totally against discrimination against gay people (and thus think gay marriage should be allowed), I am wondering if there aren't ways around the loan issue. Suppose I have a girlfriend and we don't want to get married, cant we enter into some sort of dual responsibility contract with a bank and get a joint loan? I know banks allow joint ban ...[text shortened]... if one is South African they may use it as a basis for applying for residence/citizenship.
    What about death/sickness/inheritance issues if you are a 'life partner'?
  10. Joined
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    25 Apr '13 20:50
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Here's a thought for you.

    Homosexuality has been around for thousands of years.

    So, given that God made man in his image.....( allegedly )

    What happened? Did God make a mistake somewhere along the line?
    Was the programming of some human brains fouled up somewhere and
    suddenly we had gay people?

    It is said in the Bible in various pla ...[text shortened]... perfect?
    He made mistakes? Something went wrong
    in his creation and became an abomination?
    He made man perfect physically. This is why Adam lived past the 900+ years that he did. He knew nothing on man ever dying until God told him that he would because of the sin he "chose" to make. It was not an accident.
    Now that Adam started to die as he was now imperfect as God took that ability for him to possibly live forever away, all his offspring became imperfect and would pass that down to each generation.
    And as a result of becoming more imperfect as no one today can come close to living the hundreds of years as Adam and his offspring did up to the flood, more and more imperfection comes upon us both mentally and physically and that would include our genetics being affected more and more.
    As a result of our imperfections, we now see it in many forms both mentally and physically.
    So God did not make man to be imperfect physically as Adam would still be alive today if he had not sinned. All the problems we have now was started by our original parents and is what we've inherited.
    God is not to be blamed at all..........
  11. Joined
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    25 Apr '13 21:32
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Although I am totally against discrimination against gay people (and thus think gay marriage should be allowed), I am wondering if there aren't ways around the loan issue. Suppose I have a girlfriend and we don't want to get married, cant we enter into some sort of dual responsibility contract with a bank and get a joint loan? I know banks allow joint ban ...[text shortened]... if one is South African they may use it as a basis for applying for residence/citizenship.
    depends on each countries if they have relevant laws and how they are applied. for example, even life partners may require a piece of paper, paper that wouldn't be provided to gays
  12. Dublin Ireland
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    25 Apr '13 21:43
    Originally posted by galveston75
    He made man perfect physically. This is why Adam lived past the 900+ years that he did. He knew nothing on man ever dying until God told him that he would because of the sin he "chose" to make. It was not an accident.
    Now that Adam started to die as he was now imperfect as God took that ability for him to possibly live forever away, all his offspring b ...[text shortened]... our original parents and is what we've inherited.
    God is not to be blamed at all..........
    How do you know Adam ever existed
    never mind that he lived 900+ years?

    Do you seriously think it is possible for anyone
    to live that long?

    Don't tell me the Bible says...........because that's all hocus pocus.

    The calendar too has changed down through the ages.
    We don't know how long a year was back 2000 years ago.
  13. Joined
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    25 Apr '13 23:03
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    How do you know Adam ever existed
    never mind that he lived 900+ years?

    Do you seriously think it is possible for anyone
    to live that long?

    Don't tell me the Bible says...........because that's all hocus pocus.

    The calendar too has changed down through the ages.
    We don't know how long a year was back 2000 years ago.
    Well hate to do this to you but it is what the Bible says. I believe it and nothing in the Bible has ever been proven wrong to me even up to the prophecies that I see coming true today..
  14. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    25 Apr '13 23:13
    Why would any one want to get married?
  15. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    25 Apr '13 23:281 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    ...Adam lived past the 900+ years ... would because of the sin he "chose" to
    make. ... Adam started to die as he was now imperfect as God took that ability
    for him to possibly live forever away, all his offspring became imperfect and would pass that down to each generation.
    ...that would include our genetics being affected more and more.
    Ok.
    That's a really interesting explanation of why people are living shorter and
    shorter lives.
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