Originally posted by sonhouse
I am saying your god cares less how many die from torture and murder. The entire human population could die at once and there would still be no peep from your god.

That's ALL I am saying.

But your so-called loving god is not so loving if it can clearly see torture by the millions and it does nothing about it.

It clearly shows this alleged god has ...[text shortened]... er in the bible, it is in the bible therefore it is true.

Poster boy for circular reasoning.

Again you assume a great deal, we know what you'd do, but you cannot say with any
certainty what a 'real god would do' since you do not share in God perspectives and
purposes. You do not even know if God is or isn't intervening into man's lives stopping
even worse things from happening, since you are blind to God. For all you know we
would have destroyed ourselves over and over again if it were not for God and as bad
as it was and is, it could have been worse.

You agree with your own studies, imagine that...talk about circular reasoning.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Again you assume a great deal, we know what you'd do, but you cannot say with any
certainty what a 'real god would do' since you do not share in God perspectives and
purposes. You do not even know if God is or isn't intervening into man's lives stopping
even worse things from happening, since you are blind to God. For all you know we
would have destroye ...[text shortened]... ve been worse.

You agree with your own studies, imagine that...talk about circular reasoning.

Again pulling the 'you can't know the mind of god' card. I am not after what is in this alleged god mind, I am showing its lack of actions regarding the inhumane suffering of victims getting tortured to death and no response whatsoever from this alleged god.

It says a couple of things to me: 1, there would be no response if 99.999999% of us die. So, #2, even if there is 'a' god, it doesn't mean that god has anything to do with humans. We could just as easily be a broken experiment. Remember, there have been a lot of failed human type experiments in the past, Heidlebergensis, Habilis, Neandertals, all gone, failed. We can and eventually will fail too. Whatever gods are around, if any, will do nothing to stop our extinction either by our own hands or by a giant asteroid cracking Earth in two.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Again pulling the 'you can't know the mind of god' card. I am not after what is in this alleged god mind, I am showing its lack of actions regarding the inhumane suffering of victims getting tortured to death and no response whatsoever from this alleged god.

It says a couple of things to me: 1, there would be no response if 99.999999% of us die. So, #2, ...[text shortened]... ing to stop our extinction either by our own hands or by a giant asteroid cracking Earth in two.

You cannot know the mind of God yet your claims about in how God should or should
not act with the information you produce is very arrogant on your part.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You cannot know the mind of God yet your claims about in how God should or should
not act with the information you produce is very arrogant on your part.

I think when the bible says 'thou shalt not kill' I take it to be an indication the alleged god does not like killing. Call me stupid but that seems to be what is going on here.

So It says, don't kill, but if you do, I am going to studiously ignore all that bad stuff. You will get yours someday.

Even if it involves literally millions of deaths at the hands of torturers. No big deal, we all die someday, right? Why should a god give a rats ass what WE feel when being tortured to death.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Again you assume a great deal, we know what you'd do, but you cannot say with any
certainty what a 'real god would do' since you do not share in God perspectives and
purposes.

If we are told that God is 'loving' or 'just' then I think we can either:
1. Assume that God will act in a loving and just way.
or
2. Declare that he isn't loving or just or doesn't exist.
The fact is that you and other theists make claims about God, then when those claims are questioned you pretend that nothing can be known about God. Seems like a contradiction to me.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I think when the bible says 'thou shalt not kill' I take it to be an indication the alleged god does not like killing. Call me stupid but that seems to be what is going on here.

So It says, don't kill, but if you do, I am going to studiously ignore all that bad stuff. You will get yours someday.

Even if it involves literally millions of deaths at the ...[text shortened]... die someday, right? Why should a god give a rats ass what WE feel when being tortured to death.

“murder” instead of “kill.” unless you want to discuss translation differences I'd submit
to you kill is not a good translation or people, animals, and plants would all be off limits.

That said, as I point out to you over and over and you ignore is that this life isn't it!
It is simply a temp place cursed due to our disobedience. All of our lives have been cut
short due to our sinfulness some of which is murder, rape, torture, lying, and the list
goes on and on.

Nothing that produces the evil we see in this life will go forward into the next one where
life will be eternal. You being caught up in the evil of this world only shows that you are
aware these things are evil and should not be happening.

The fact you know they are bad clearly says you know that there are ways we are to act
and ways we are not supposed to act. That is not true if the only measure of good and
bad is the one making the choices.

Originally posted by twhitehead
If we are told that God is 'loving' or 'just' then I think we can either:
1. Assume that God will act in a loving and just way.
or
2. Declare that he isn't loving or just or doesn't exist.
The fact is that you and other theists make claims about God, then when those claims are questioned you pretend that nothing can be known about God. Seems like a contradiction to me.

Are you saying God cannot be loving and just?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Are you saying God cannot be loving and just?

I am just pointing to the evidence otherwise. 200 million dead, murdered in century 20 and 19 and still going on today. Murdered, tortured to death. Yet not a peep from your supposedly loving and just god.

Says pretty clearly AT MINIMUM, even assuming there is such a god, it gives a rats ass how we die, whether from old age or at the hands of torturers, no big deal to this so-called god.

I am not reading the mind of this alleged god, I am reading its clear actions or I should say non actions.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I am just pointing to the evidence otherwise. 200 million dead, murdered in century 20 and 19 and still going on today. Murdered, tortured to death. Yet not a peep from your supposedly loving and just god.

Says pretty clearly AT MINIMUM, even assuming there is such a god, it gives a rats ass how we die, whether from old age or at the hands of torturers, ...[text shortened]... eading the mind of this alleged god, I am reading its clear actions or I should say non actions.

HOW do you know God didn't move to stop the EVIL we were doing to each other?
You don't even acknowledge God being real let along being able to see when He does act.

Originally posted by KellyJay
HOW do you know God didn't move to stop the EVIL we were doing to each other?
You don't even acknowledge God being real let along being able to see when He does act.

Exactly what acts would you be referring to? All I see is continued killing in Jihad, Boko Haram killing boys at school, kidnapping the girls to be someones sex slave, and that by the hundreds. And attacks in France, Germany, USA all in the name of god.

That is only this year.

Doesn't look like any act is coming from your god lately or actually more like never.

Show me one instance where your god stopped some evil act.

It turns out the world's police force has stopped a lot more murder than your so-called god.

Originally posted by sonhouse
This alleged god allowed LITERALLY hundreds of millions of people to die by the hands of despots and war in centuries past and still going on today.

The fact there was zero from your alleged god shows quite clearly just how much it must care for humanity, even assuming it exists, which I can confidently say does not.

That is not the same as saying th ...[text shortened]... ekels but a MAN is worth 50.

Gee, how CONVENIENT, a book written by men saying such nonsense.

I'm certain there were many who thought the same as sonhouse before the time of Moses. Just think about it. The thousands of Jews enslaved in Egypt. And a handful who still believed. Even with all the torture and death.

Why wouldn't they, like sonhouse, feel the same way. They had even less to go on (believing) than we do now.

I can not condemn sonhouses thoughts for where he stands now. But i will still have that table ready for him and all the others who do not believe, in heaven. How can i be so certain. Look at his compassion, can you (readers other than sonhouse) not see it. Compassion is love, and it is love that will bring YOU home.

Sure, laugh at me. That is ok, because I Know that you do not understand me.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
I'm certain there were many who thought the same as sonhouse before the time of Moses. Just think about it. The thousands of Jews enslaved in Egypt. And a handful who still believed. Even with all the torture and death.

Why wouldn't they, like sonhouse, feel the same way. They had even less to go on (believing) than we do now.

I can not condemn sonho ...[text shortened]... bring YOU home.

Sure, laugh at me. That is ok, because I Know that you do not understand me.

Why would I laugh at mythology? I don't laugh at Aborigine life origin stories. At least they don't go around proselytizing to entice the growth of their religious views.

You guys on the other hand, want nothing more than to increase the congregation which is now the realm of politics not spirituality.

There should be 8 billion separate religions and nobody try to muzzle in on anyone else's religious thought.

The problem comes about when billions of people believe in totally incompatible beliefs and are now at each other's throats because of it.

My position is and always will be, a god would never set up such a cruel system.

A REAL god could just as easily speak to every person in their own language and get a world wide religion going where there would be no religious war and maybe even no secular wars either.

I want freedom FROM religion not freedom OF religion.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Exactly what acts would you be referring to? All I see is continued killing in Jihad, Boko Haram killing boys at school, kidnapping the girls to be someones sex slave, and that by the hundreds. And attacks in France, Germany, USA all in the name of god.

That is only this year.

Doesn't look like any act is coming from your god lately or actually more ...[text shortened]...

It turns out the world's police force has stopped a lot more murder than your so-called god.

Lets compare who you are to who scripture says God is.
God is eternal, you are not.
You live in this tiny little tiny winy piece of time we call now and are limited to it, God is not.
God created all of Heavens and the Earth and everything in the universe, you did not.
God holds it all together by the power of his word, You do not.
God is showing us mercy each day of our lives, from the worst of us to the best of us,
because we are all sinners that should be stopped due to our sins, you are not.
God wishes that we are all get saved, you do not.
So God allows us to act our sins in this life time isn't something I think you could grasp
because you do not grasp the horror awaiting those who die in their sins.
God who sent His Son to die so we could all be saved, even the worst of us, God is
allowing us to make that choice.
You it seems want to start picking us off now, when this life time is not the prize, it isn't
the end all be all.

You do not hold man accountable for man's actions, instead blame God. I think you need
to start blaming the monsters who do these horrible acts and not worry about what God
is going to do to them. Once God acts, there is no hope for relief, no one can stop the
Lord from that which He is going to do those that sin.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Exactly what acts would you be referring to? All I see is continued killing in Jihad, Boko Haram killing boys at school, kidnapping the girls to be someones sex slave, and that by the hundreds. And attacks in France, Germany, USA all in the name of god.

That is only this year.

Doesn't look like any act is coming from your god lately or actually more ...[text shortened]...

It turns out the world's police force has stopped a lot more murder than your so-called god.

How would you know the hand of God?
If someone pointed it out to you, you are to blind to see it.
Death is an end to all pain and suffering in this life time, and after that the eternal begins.
What happens here in each case things occur, what we do see in each of these cases is
what happens when we act without restraint and lawless. What we are is clearly being
put on full display, what will happen when all of our accounts are settled will be Hell to
pay.

Originally posted by KellyJay
How would you know the hand of God?
If someone pointed it out to you, you are to blind to see it.
Death is an end to all pain and suffering in this life time, and after that the eternal begins.
What happens here in each case things occur, what we do see in each of these cases is
what happens when we act without restraint and lawless. What we are is clea ...[text shortened]... put on full display, what will happen when all of our accounts are settled will be Hell to
pay.

And you and the billion other religious folk are just living lives of wishful thinking. All you do is continue your circular reasoning, citing bible concepts as if they were real, proving bible concepts because they are in the bible. That is poster boy for circular reasoning.

It is belief and belief only.

But you can't see beyond the bible and Islamists cannot see beyond the Quran and all the rest of the religious brainwashed by THEIR equivalent of bibles.

You readily admit all religions but Christianity is false but they say the same about your religion.

Don't you get it? ALL of them are false, not just Islam but yours too.

A god would NEVER set up such a cruel system where men kill each other over religious faith.

If that causes you to pull the 'now you think you know the mind of god' card, go for it. Just pulling that card does not refute my statement.