17 Nov 06
Originally posted by jaywillYou perseverate in making ponderous pronoucements; you violate every Gricean maxim in the book
Well, the God that you discribe as being too removed to be of any significance is not the God of the Bible.
God can enter into time though He inhabits eternity. He can go along with man though sometimes we cannot go along with Him.
This is like the life of a parent with a child. The parent can go along the same level as the child. But the child may n ...[text shortened]... o such a transcendent realm that you don't feel the need to be forgiven by Him for your sins.
It really does sound like an alien psychovirus has hijacked your mind and is speaking through you.
Or maybe it's just the Holy Spirit, blowing where it wills...
You don't, perchance, suffer from temporal lobe epilepsy, do you? It could account for your monomania.
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro01/web2/Eguae.html
17 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillThis is one of the strangest posts I have read in here (and that's saying something!). So God is going to marry his children?
God is the only real "He". The unique "He" and male is God.
In eternity future the saved are depicted as a collective female, the Bride and Wife of God. So in God's eyes, in one level, we are all female.
He is the Father begetting many sons and daughters on one level:
[b]"I will dwell among them and walk among them; and I will be their God, ot cover all the aspects of the matter as seen in the Bible.[/b]
17 Nov 06
2 edits
Originally posted by jaywillWith respect, I'm not saying god (the entity that created the universe) is too removed to be of any significance, I'm saying god is too removed for us to understand it.
Well, the God that you discribe as being too removed to be of any significance is not the God of the Bible.
God can enter into time though He inhabits eternity. He can go along with man though sometimes we cannot go along with Him.
This is like the life of a parent with a child. The parent can go along the same level as the child. But the child may n o such a transcendent realm that you don't feel the need to be forgiven by Him for your sins.
I agree that the god of the bible is NOT too removed for us to understand it, this is why the god of the bible is ridiculous. There may be a god, but i don't think it is the one of the bible. This is what i am trying to say. The god of the bible is anthropomorphosised, like a cartoon mouse that talks and drives a car. You can't turn everything into a person, especially not god. The bible does this, and this is why i think it is incorrect.
A child will become an adult. It doesn't understand a lot of what adults think and feel, but it has a vague idea because it is the same species. God is not only a different species, it is not a species at all. God is completely different to us, for the reasons you point out such as all-knowing omnipresence, and omnipotency. How can we possibly understand this god? God may condescend to us, but that doesn't mean we can ever understand what god is really thinking or feeling. To pretend we do is pure folly.
The bible attempts to translate god's actions into human concepts and feelings.("he was angry, he was dissapointed, he was pleased etc" ) It is absurd. It is an absurd book. IMO There is no point in reading it, or quoting from it. It is a ridiculous book.
Believe in a God, believe in Christ if you must, but question the book, the book was written for a different time. Even those people who wrote it would question the logic now. Wouldn't they...? If not, that's even more reason not to listen to them.
17 Nov 06
3 edits
Originally posted by twiceaknightI disagree with you twiceaknight. The revelation of the three - one nature of God makes God a "Person," yet not a typical one.
With respect, I'm not saying god (the entity that created the universe) is too removed to be of any significance, I'm saying god is too removed for us to understand it.
I agree that the god of the bible is NOT too removed for us to understand it, this is why the god of the bible is ridiculous. There may be a god, but i don't think it is the one of th e logic now. Wouldn't they...? If not, that's even more reason not to listen to them.
The Trinity of God is very mysterious. I don't think that people would concoct such a puzzling Person. I think if the Bible were the product of human imagination this rather incomprehensible aspect of God would be stirred clear of.
The revelation of the Father - Son - Holy Spirit God as one God is proof to me that the Bible is not the product of human imagination. Who would concoct such a puzzle that no one, but no one has been able to adaquately explain? We are called to "believe"
God is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. He is a Person. but far far from a typical person as we know one.
So you have an anthropomorphic discription of God on one hand. but quite on the other hand you have a discription of a Life which is without limitation - an eternal Life, a Being without limitation as we know of personhood, a Life which is nearly incomprehensible to fully understand yet still available to experience and enjoy.
The existence of the Trinity leads me to believe that what is discribed in the Bible is really a divine Life which is beyond limitation and eternal. We cannot fully comprehend. But we can believe. We can receive. And we can enjoy Him.
The love of God and the grace of Christ and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."
If your theory is true that God of the Bible is just man's imagination I honestly do not think there would be a teaching of the Triune God - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as the three - one Divine Being.
What do you think?
17 Nov 06
1 edit
Believe in a God, believe in Christ if you must, but question the book, the book was written for a different time. Even those people who wrote it would question the logic now. Wouldn't they...? If not, that's even more reason not to listen to them.
Here we have a problem.
If the Bible were completed recently then some skeptics would say that it has not stood the test of time. It is not old enough to have proved itself to be truth throughout different ages.
Yet if the Bible was completed long ago you have skeptics who will complain the it is too old, not modern enough, not up to date.
This is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" complaint of skeptical people.
I prefer to believe that the Bible having stood the test of time has proved itself as appropriate in many many different cultures and ages.
Love is love. Rightouesness is righteousness. Jesus Christ has appealed to every generation. I believe ten centries from now should the human culture exist that long, Jesus Christ will still appeal to the human heart.
I don't expect Buck Rogers to out compete Jesus Christ in gut relevance to human life on this earth.
17 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillThe GOD is not a "he" or "she". And you cann't say anything like that about GOD. The Bible talks about GOD as if he is a person who get angry , tired, regret, and beaten in a fight.
I disagree with you twiceaknight. The revelation of the three - one nature of God makes God a "Person," yet not a typical one.
The Trinity of God is very mysterious. I don't think that people would concoct such a puzzling Person. I think if the Bible were the product of human imagination this rather incomprehensible aspect of God would be stirred clear her, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as the three - one Divine Being.
What do you think?
This is impossible for GOD, that makes it impossible for the Bible to be a word of GOD.
The picture the Bible draw for GOD is very bad and it is very clear that it is human made. Which make is difficult for any one with mind to accept him as a GOD. I think this is the reason for the increasing number of athiest in the world. You will discuvor they all base their Idea about GOD from the Bible.
If you look in the Bible with a different Eye you will realize this fact very simply.
17 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyI was written off as hopeless. However I agree that God must of necessity include the attributes of both male and female characteristics.
The GOD is not a "he" or "she". And you cann't say anything like that about GOD. The Bible talks about GOD as if he is a person who get angry , tired, regret, and beaten in a fight.
This is impossible for GOD, that makes it impossible for the Bible to be a word of GOD.
The picture the Bible draw for GOD is very bad and it is very clear that it is a h ...[text shortened]... e.
If you look in the Bible with a different Eye you will realize this fact very simply.
I already indicated some feminine allusions to God from Genesis 17. He is the big breasted One. The God with a large udder.
The Hebrew word picture is unmistakenly feminine.
Still I am at peace to call God "He" as so very many places in the Bible.
18 Nov 06
Originally posted by jaywillLet me ask you a question:
I was written off as hopeless. However I agree that God must of necessity include the attributes of both male and female characteristics.
I already indicated some feminine allusions to God from Genesis 17. He is the big breasted One. The God with a large udder.
The Hebrew word picture is unmistakenly feminine.
Still I am at peace to call God "He" as so very many places in the Bible.
Who wrote the Bible?
18 Nov 06
Originally posted by twiceaknightHe came to earth in hte image of a man.
This is a clear case of anthropomorphosis (heh).
Why would he have sexual organs? Is he going to reproduce? Of course not. So if 'he' has no genetals, what is it about 'him' that makes 'him' a 'him'? Nothing!
'It' seems a more sensible pronoun to use.
On a more serious note, this is an example of how people assume that god is like a person. Th ...[text shortened]... to do and say and think, if it cares at all.
Christians...... what do you think?
18 Nov 06
Originally posted by twiceaknightwhy wouldnt he be?
This is a clear case of anthropomorphosis (heh).
Why would he have sexual organs? Is he going to reproduce? Of course not. So if 'he' has no genetals, what is it about 'him' that makes 'him' a 'him'? Nothing!
'It' seems a more sensible pronoun to use.
On a more serious note, this is an example of how people assume that god is like a person. Th ...[text shortened]... to do and say and think, if it cares at all.
Christians...... what do you think?
18 Nov 06
Originally posted by IronFistedBishopWhy wouldn't he be a man?
why wouldnt he be?
Because entities are male and female for the purposes of sexual reproduction. Apparently, this god is the only god, and presumably does not have sexual organs for the purpose of reproduction, because there is no other god for it to mate with, and therefore cannot be consdidered a man or woman.
Only mortals need to reproduce, and only mortals have sexual organs, and therefore only mortals are male or female.
It is sexually reproductive organs that define gender, and it would be illogical for god to have them.
18 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillPersonally, I agree that we are called upon to "believe"in the bible, but i don't think that the argument that we SHOULD "believe" in the bible because it's too incomprehensible (or illogical) for anyone to have made it up is a good argument.
I disagree with you twiceaknight. The revelation of the three - one nature of God makes God a "Person," yet not a typical one.
The Trinity of God is very mysterious. I don't think that people would concoct such a puzzling Person. I think if the Bible were the product of human imagination this rather incomprehensible aspect of God would be stirred clear her, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as the three - one Divine Being.
What do you think?
Perhaps it got confused in translation from hebrew, or maybe it was simply incorrect to start with. Logic has developed over the milenia, just like most other aspects of culture, and now we can see flaws that we used to be blind to. I can anyway.
I like to believe in a "holly spirit", perhaps it created the universe, perhaps it is the sum of all the love in the universe (which is greater than its parts), as in "god is love," or perhaps we all have our own god inside each of us, i don't really know but i am genuinely interested.
The father, the son? No no no. To me it just doesn't make sense.
Moving on...
There are other logical problems/inconsistencies with the god that is talked about in the bible such as 'the problem of evil' and i think the whole idea of god punishing us is the worst bit in terms of credibility.
To put us into such a difficult life and then punish us when we make bad choices is wrong. Why would a being so powerful, everywhere at all times at the same time, who (by definition) knew what would happen from the start, get angry when its contrived little game unfolds? Why would a loving god play these childish, human games with us in the first place. Surely it would have better things to do, things we can't even imagine because we are just people. Why not make another universe or something? Maybe a better one this time.
Please don't tell me we have free will because i know that. The thing is, if we are supposed to use our free will to follow and worship this apparently overgrown child, why is the message we have been given so "incomprehensible?" Why not make things clearer? Why play with us like this? Tough love? Well thanks but no thanks.
I don't worry about writing these things because i know that if there is a god, It loves me and it gave me the ability to question things and think for myself, and this is precisely what i am doing.
I know you are trying to do god's work, and you are trying to save my and people like me's souls. This means you are a good person, and i am sure you are. You are lucky to have a faith, but i suspect a lot of religious people fear losing their faith more than anything else. The thing is, I have faith in my own powers of logic, (apparently given to me from somewhere, perhaps a god?) and if anything, I fear losing my faith in my logic and "believing" something nonesensical instead. In a way, i suppose I am trying to save your soul too....
18 Nov 06
Originally posted by jaywillCan't we just agree that God is a hermaphrodite?
I was written off as hopeless. However I agree that God must of necessity include the attributes of both male and female characteristics.
I already indicated some feminine allusions to God from Genesis 17. He is the big breasted One. The God with a large udder.
The Hebrew word picture is unmistakenly feminine.
Still I am at peace to call God "He" as so very many places in the Bible.
18 Nov 06
Originally posted by twiceaknightI contend that God has both male and female characteristics. Consider the following concept from Jungian psychology.....It is a well known fact that everyone both male and female have their own contra-sexual side to them. for the man, this is called the anima and for the woman it is called the animus. We all have both sides to us.
Why wouldn't he be a man?
Because entities are male and female for the purposes of sexual reproduction. Apparently, this god is the only god, and presumably does not have sexual organs for the purpose of reproduction, because there is no other god for it to mate with, and therefore cannot be consdidered a man or woman.
Only mortals need to reprodu ...[text shortened]... exually reproductive organs that define gender, and it would be illogical for god to have them.
18 Nov 06
Originally posted by twiceaknightI don't fear losing my faith anymore than I fear losing my birth.
Personally, I agree that we are called upon to "believe"in the bible, but i don't think that the argument that we SHOULD "believe" in the bible because it's too incomprehensible (or illogical) for anyone to have made it up is a good argument.
Perhaps it got confused in translation from hebrew, or maybe it was simply incorrect to start with. Logic has ...[text shortened]... nsical instead. In a way, i suppose I am trying to save your soul too....
How can I become "unborn" once I am born into this world? It is utterly impossible. And how can I be "unborn again" of God once He has begotten me?
My faith is an organic part of the life that has been born into me when I received Jesus.
As for the punishment problem, I think you would do well to give equal time to realize all the punishment necessary for the entire human race took place on Calvary's cross upon Christ.
His redemptive death is ALL on behalf of everyone is the imputation of justice on our behalf. So in fact none need be concerned with punishment when one sees that Christ's redemption has made it uneccessary to all who receive Him.
We often want to believe in God's great and eternal love but not believe in His great and eternal righteousness. The cross of Christ is the place where the great love of God and the great justice and righteousness of God work together for the fulfillment of His will.
All the punishment we need to be concerned with as believers in the Son of God has already taken place on the cross of Christ on man's behalf. God has devised a way to love us yet not violate His own eternal perfection. He has devised a way to judge us in Christ that we may enjoy that love in eternal life, spotless and without blemish before a Perfect God now our dear Father.