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Originally posted by josephwAs much as one can be an authority on imaginary entities I fare just as well as any other person without the bias you have. If there is some sort of deity (big if) I am absolutely sure,based on the nonsensical properties you and other fundies ascribe to it, it is not the character you believe exists.
So [b]you say.
I guess that makes you the authority on God and the Bible.
I stand corrected oh almighty Agerg.[/b]
Originally posted by AgergYou think so?
As much as one can be an authority on imaginary entities I fare just as well as any other person without the bias you have. If there is some sort of deity (big if) I am absolutely sure,[hidden](like I\'m sure that if I jump I won\'t float off into space - can\'t prove I won\'t but its safe to assume it)[/hidden]based on the nonsensical properties you and other fundies ascribe to it, it is not the character you believe exists.
Then you admit you really don't know what you're talking about?
You can't prove you won't float off into space if you jump?
🙄
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Originally posted by josephwI know you are brainwashed!
You think so?
Then you admit you really don't know what you're talking about?
You can't prove you won't float off into space if you jump?
[hidden]Start jumping.[/hidden] 🙄
How does one construct a cast iron, and logically irrefutable proof that all the times gravity has worked the way we expect aren't just special cases of some wider, and as yet unexpected phenomenon that could manifest the next time one jumps? Even if I keep jumping and stop after N successive jumps how do I prove that had I jumped one more time I wouldn't have floated off into space? Empirical justification does not serve as the sort of proof I refer to.
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Originally posted by AgergI know you have brainwashed yourself!
I know you are brainwashed!
How does one construct a cast iron, and logically irrefutable proof that all the times gravity has worked the way we expect aren't just special cases of some wider, and as yet unexpected phenomenon that could manifest the next time one jumps? Even if I keep jumping and stop after N successive jumps how do I prove that had I jumpe loated off into space? Empirical justification does not serve as the sort of proof I refer to.
You know as long as gravity exists you will never float off into space when you jump. You don't need empirical justification to know that.
The 'proof' for a creator is all that exists. You have no 'proof' there is no God.
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Originally posted by josephwI never said I doubted the proposition *If I jump, I won't float off into space*, I merely said I couldn't *prove* it. Perhaps you will fare better than me...prove that gravity always has (even when no one was looking) and always will work the way we expect. I expect a rigorous, and logically sound argument from you.
I know you have brainwashed yourself!
You know as long as gravity exists you will never float off into space when you jump. You don't need empirical justification to know that.
The 'proof' for a creator is all that exists. You have no 'proof' there is no God.
Similarly I have no reason to doubt the proposition *your god does not exist*, but again I cannot prove it.
All that exists is proof of "God" eh? So is:
- dog poo proof of God?
- rabies proof of God?
- cancer proof of God?
- and so on...
Originally posted by AgergYou can't prove you won't float off into space if you jump? Why? Because you would have to keep jumping till you died? Why do you feel the need to 'prove' it anyway? Everybody knows it won't happen!
I never said I doubted the proposition *If I jump, I won't float off into space*, I merely said I couldn't *prove* it. Perhaps you will fare better than me...prove that gravity always has (even when no one was looking) and always will work the way we expect. I expect a rigorous, and logically sound argument from you.
Similarly I have no reason to doubt the ...[text shortened]... - dog poo proof of God?
- rabies proof of God?
- cancer proof of God?
- and so on...
All that exists is proof of "God" eh? So is:
- dog poo proof of God?
- rabies proof of God?
- cancer proof of God?
- and so on...
Yes. Ultimately. But why be a dolt about it? You know what I'm talking about.
You have the choice to either believe the universe exists and not know why, or you can acknowledge that the universe exists because it was created.
Just as you know you will never float off into space no matter how many times you jump, you know the universe was created by its creator.
Or you can live the rest of your life in ignorants as to how and why it exists.
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Originally posted by josephwYou can't prove you won't float off into space if you jump? Why? Because you would have to keep jumping till you died? Why do you feel the need to 'prove' it anyway? Everybody knows it won't happen!
You can't prove you won't float off into space if you jump? Why? Because you would have to keep jumping till you died? Why do you feel the need to 'prove' it anyway? Everybody knows it won't happen!
[b]All that exists is proof of "God" eh? So is:
- dog poo proof of God?
- rabies proof of God?
- cancer proof of God?
- and so on...
Yes. Ult ow and why it exists.[hidden]self delusionment by willful denial of the obvious[/hidden][/b]
I never said I felt like I had to prove it - it was you who issued the challenge by implying I was stupid for thinking I couldn't prove it! Indeed I am highly confident I won't float off into space next time I jump *despite the fact* I cannot prove it.
I'm equally confident your god doesn't exist - indeed everybody who does not suffer the delusion that clouds your own judgement knows that *your* god doesn't exist.
Yes. Ultimately. But why be a dolt about it? You know what I'm talking about.
Please explain how those things I mentioned are proof of "God" - if all the good stuff proves this construct of yours then so should all the icky stuff. Please don't skimp on the rigour
As for "knowing the universe was created by its creator" I find it more plausible that Gandalf did it than Goddidit
Originally posted by AgergI was being sarcastic again Agerg. I was not implying that you were stupid. I know you're not stupid.
[b]You can't prove you won't float off into space if you jump? Why? Because you would have to keep jumping till you died? Why do you feel the need to 'prove' it anyway? Everybody knows it won't happen!
I never said I felt like I had to prove it - it was you who issued the challenge by implying I was stupid for thinking I couldn't prove it! Indeed ...[text shortened]... truct of yours then so should all the icky stuff. Please don't skimp on the rigour[/b]
Did I ever tell you the story about my philosophy professor? About 30 years ago I discovered Jesus. So I went into professor Anderson's office to discuss this new thing of which I was quite ignorant about and get his feedback. I respected him, but I had no idea about his beliefs. At one point he became very agitated and through clenched teeth he said that, "if there were a God I would hate his guts".
Well, needless to say, that wasn't very objective of him.
I know this business about God, in the light of this very nonobjective world, is perplexing to most. The bottom line though, is that those who say 'there is no God' don't know that based on the fact that it cannot be proven.
On the other hand, when someone such as I says that the universe is the evidence for the existence of a creator, it can't be denied that the universe exists. One can only say that the existence of the universe isn't proof of the existence of a creator.
But that wouldn't be true. There's much more to it than that. Unfortunately I can't get past square one with anyone in here about that.
Bitterness is blinding.
......I am the Almighty God: walk before Me, and be thou perfect. Almighty God (Heb. El Shaddai.) God (El) signifies the "Strong One". Shaddai is formed from the Hebrew word "shad," the breast, invaribly used in scripture for a woman's breast. Shaddai therefore means primarily "the breasted." God is "Shaddai," because He is the Nourisher, the Strength-giver, and so, in a secondary sense, the Satisfier, who pours Himself into believing lives. El Shaddai is the name of God which sets Him forth as the Strengthgiver and Satisfier of His people. So God does reveal Himself in a feminine way. P.S. Notes from Scofield Reference Bible.
Originally posted by gambit3Shadday is the transliteration of the Hebrew. The root word Shaddad means the following:
......I am the Almighty God: walk before Me, and be thou perfect. Almighty God (Heb. El Shaddai.) God (El) signifies the "Strong One". Shaddai is formed from the Hebrew word "shad," the breast, invaribly used in scripture for a woman's breast. Shaddai therefore means primarily "the breasted." God is "Shaddai," because He is the Nourisher, the Strength-giver, ...[text shortened]... So God does reveal Himself in a feminine way. P.S. Notes from Scofield Reference Bible.
1) to deal violently with, despoil, devastate, ruin, destroy, spoil
a) (Qal)
1) to violently destroy, devastate, despoil, assail
2) devastator, despoiler (participle) (subst)
b) (Niphal) to be utterly ruined
c) (Piel)
1) to assault
2) to devastate
d) (Pual) to be devastated
e) (Poel) to violently destroy
f) (Hophal) to be devastated
The English word 'Almighty appears 48 times in the Authorised Version. It always means all powerful.
There is no indication of anything feminine to it.
Show me where I can find the Scofield reference you cited.
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Originally posted by josephwIt is very clear you looked up something at the wrong place.
Shadday is the transliteration of the Hebrew. The root word Shaddad means the following:
1) to deal violently with, despoil, devastate, ruin, destroy, spoil
a) (Qal)
1) to violently destroy, devastate, despoil, assail
2) devastator, despoiler (participle) (subst)
b) (Niphal) to be utterly ruined
c) (Piel)
1) to assault
2) to devastate tion of anything feminine to it.
Show me where I can find the Scofield reference you cited.
[edit] : I actually mean you're looking up the wrong word....
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Originally posted by josephwThe bottom line though, is that those who say 'there is no God' don't know that based on the fact that it cannot be proven.
I was being sarcastic again Agerg. I was not implying that you were stupid. I know you're not stupid.
Did I ever tell you the story about my philosophy professor? About 30 years ago I discovered Jesus. So I went into professor Anderson's office to discuss this new thing of which I was quite ignorant about and get his feedback. I respected him, but I had n an't get past square one with anyone in here about that.
Bitterness is blinding.
But then if that's a valid statement then so is:
Those who say that gravity will pull them down to earth when they jump don't know that based on the fact it cannot be proven.
Or to summarise my point here: We don't need to prove your god doesn't exist any more than we need to prove leprechauns don't exist to be confident it doesn't exist (where confidence in this respect is as strong as our confidence that gravity `works'😉
Originally posted by AgergThere is no evidence for the non-existence of a creator, but there is ample evidence that one will fall when they jump.
[b]The bottom line though, is that those who say 'there is no God' don't know that based on the fact that it cannot be proven.
But then if that's a valid statement then so is:
Those who say that gravity will pull them down to earth when they jump don't know that based on the fact it cannot be proven.[/b]
Unless you jump into the arms of Jesus. 😉