Witness Lee and the Lord's Recovery Movement

@divegeester

She didn't write that (quite biblical) hymn.

Watch the videos and encourage Dariusz to come here for some questions.
Is the person a Christian ?

"God has not given us a spirit of cowardice; but of power, and of love, and of a sober mind." (2 Timothy 1:7)

@divegeester said
I’ll prove you are in cult by asking you a simple question.

On your churches website, in the statement of beliefs section, it states that a person MUST accept the trinity doctrine in order to be saved.

Do you agree with what your church has published in this regard. Yes, or no?

Hello sonship....

You avoiding this question indicates that you are in a cult because I know you disagree with it but you won’t say so, because you’re in a cult.

@divegeester

You avoiding this question indicates that you are in a cult because I know you disagree with it but you won’t say so, because you’re in a cult.

As I get time I will locate the link in which we had this debate for the last time.
When found - I probably will post it rather than another repetition of posts with you.

@sonship said
@divegeester

You avoiding this question indicates that you are in a cult because I know you disagree with it but you won’t say so, because you’re in a cult.

As I get time I will locate the link in which we had this debate for the last time.
When found - I probably will post it rather than another repetition of posts with you.

Don’t bother, you refused to answer the question then as you will hem and haw now.

The reason is that you agree with me but you can’t say it, and that you can’t say it is evidence that you are in a cult old chap.

@divegeester

Don’t bother, you refused to answer the question then as you will hem and haw now.

The reason is that you agree with me but you can’t say it, and that you can’t say it is evidence that you are in a cult old chap.

I can do something like that too.
Watch.
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We both know you are reluctant for me to provide a link because the weakness of your stubborn position will be exposed. And I recall that some poster took my side.
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Now, you welcomed Dariusz back to show off to everyone your familiarity Dariusz. Further impress us by persuading your old chap to come here and reply to some questions about the videos.

@sonship said
@divegeester

She didn't write that (quite biblical) hymn.

Watch the videos and encourage Dariusz to come here for some questions.
Is the person a Christian ?

"God has not given us a spirit of cowardice; but of power, and of love, and of a sober mind." (2 Timothy 1:7)

What "cowardice" do you perceive here?

Well, while we (or I) wait for Dariusz, I can YouTube too.

Hank Hanegraff of Christian Research Institute a PODCAST with Chris Wilde of LSM Publishing house of Nee and Lee books.

We Were Wrong with Chris Wilde

Some may want to jump to 7 minutes in past introduction.

YouTube

@sonship said
Well, while we (or I) wait for Dariusz, I can YouTube too.
Hank Hanegraff of Christian Research Institute a PODCAST with Chris Wilde of LSM Publishing house of Nee and Lee books.
We Were Wrong with Chris Wilde
Some may want to jump to 7 minutes in past introduction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVrkxReEkX4

On your churches website, in the statement of beliefs section, it states that a person MUST accept the trinity doctrine in order to be saved.

Do you agree with what your church has published in this regard?

I have rarely heard anything like the two videos at the top of this thread, that have been so convincing that I am on the right track in meeting with the Christians I have been with.

I can truly say the reaffirming encouragement that God's Spirit is on the move and causing the expected reaction in the spiritual realm is very strong within me.

The battle is not against flesh and blood but in the spiritual realm.

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Dariusz, I have one question out for you already. Did Witness Lee insist that only groups that received and read his books and invited him to speak or digested his ministry could be genuine churches on the ground of locality?
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Traveling for the day, and away from my PC. I will check in again this evening.

@sonship said
I have rarely heard anything like the two videos at the top of this thread, that have been so convincing that I am on the right track in meeting with the Christians I have been with.

I can truly say the reaffirming encouragement that God's Spirit is on the move and causing the expected reaction in the spiritual realm is very strong within me.

The battle is not against ...[text shortened]... --------------

Traveling for the day, and away from my PC. I will check in again this evening.

The recovery movement strays considerably from mainstream Christianity. Take for example Romans 10:9-10: (NIV)

'If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.'

Now, compare that to your churches statement:

”In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Every genuinely saved one has what the Bible calls the “common faith” (Titus 1:4), which includes what we must believe in order to be saved: we must believe that the Bible is the complete divine revelation wholly inspired by God; that there is a unique Triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit; that Jesus Christ is the Son of God incarnated to be a man; that Christ died on the cross for our sins, shedding His blood for our redemption; that on the third day He was bodily raised from the dead; that He has been exalted to the right hand of God and made the Lord of all; and that He is coming again for His own and to set up His kingdom on earth.” (https://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/salvation/)

All those extra caveats, such as the believe in a Triune God, are completely without biblical foundation and a narrowing of the Christian understanding of what is required for salvation.

Dariusz,

I have recently learned that the woman who established a rallying point for videos like you posted has since turned to witchcraft.

Did you know that? What a disappointment to her followers.

I also learned that the person who did the second video had to be kicked off of that Discussion Board dedicated to criticizing the local churches. Apparently he was too unruly to even get along with his fellow critics.

@sonship said
Dariusz,
I have recently learned that the woman who established a rallying point for videos like you posted has since turned to witchcraft. Did you know that? What a disappointment to her followers.

Sonship

On your church’s website, in the statement of beliefs section, it states that a person MUST accept the trinity doctrine in order to be saved.

Do you agree with what your church has published in this regard?

Conclusions from Six-year Primary Research Project by CRI and AIA

YouTube?list=PL793DA547CA28A410

https://contendingforthefaith.org/en/cri-videos/

From
Brothers Hear our Defense (3) - Concerning the State of Christendom

Since the Reformation many Christian teachers have critiqued the state of Christendom in light of the Word of God. As faithful servants of the Lord, Watchman Nee and Witness Lee provided biblically-based assessments of Christendom that are worthy of the attention of all who love the church and are concerned for her welfare. Recently, Norman Geisler and Ron Rhodes assailed Witness Lee’s critique of Christendom, misusing short sentence fragments taken from one chapter of his copious ministry. This book examines their:

Sample -

In a section of “Response” entitled “Admittedly Regrettable and Harsh State-ments about Other Religious Groups,” Geisler and Rhodes make several onerous and inaccurate statements by which they misrepresent the teachings of Witness Lee. These statements were made concerning the third chapter of Witness Lee’s book The God-ordained Way to Practice the New Testament Economy (hence-forth Practice). In what appears to be an effort to convince their readers that the local churches despise all Christians and utter hate speech against their brothers and sisters, Geisler and Rhodes claim, in reference to that chapter, that: Witness Lee...engages in a slanderous attack on “all of Christianity,” “all Christians,” “today’s Christendom” “all Christianity,” and “today’s Catholic Church.” He calls organized Christianity “deformed and degraded,” containing “false teachers,” who are “in their apostasy.” Even in this short section, there are numerous serious errors. Geisler and Rhodes: Misapply Witness Lee’s references to “false teachers” and ignore his interpretation of the parable of the tares (Matt. 13:24-30); Misrepresent Witness Lee’s statement about “all Chris-tians”; Ignore Lee’s positive appraisals of fellow Christians; Mischaracterize Witness Lee’s critique of Christianity based on their own definitions, not his; Misconstrue Witness Lee’s biblical critique of the system of Christianity as: Being deformed as shown in the parable of the mustard seed (Matt. 13:31-33); Being degraded according to the course of church history; and Disregard the focus and content of Witness Lee’s teaching in the subject chapter.

Read more at -

https://contendingforthefaith.org/en/brothers-hear-our-defense/

My bolding

Did Witness Lee Assail “All Christians”? By placing the words “all Christians” in quotation marks in their accusation referenced above, Geisler and Rhodes accused Witness Lee of directly slandering all genuine believers. Such an accusation should be supported by the text in question, but it is not. An examination of the chapter shows that their charge is false. In fact, the term “all Christians” appears only once in the chapter in a passage which is far from being either slanderous or harsh. Witness Lee stated: When we talk about Christianity in such a way, this does not mean that we do not love all Christians. We love all of our brothers and sisters in the Lord, yet we have to admit that today’s Christendom is absolutely far off from God’s eternal plan.7A statement of love toward “all of our brothers and sisters” hardly seems to be an attack on all Christians. Yet, this is the premise Geisler and Rhodes assert. It is simply astounding that they could have read the chapter (this phrase occurs in the introductory portion of the chapter) and come to the conclusion that this mention of “all Christians” was a “slanderous attack.” These two brief sentences contain yet another important factor that seems to elude Geisler and Rhodes. That is, in the teachings of Witness Lee and the local churches, there is a definite, consistent, and crucial distinction made between the system of Christianity, which is open to criticism, and the Christians themselves, who are to be loved and received as brothers and sisters. As Lee further stated in the chapter in 7 Witness Lee, Practice, op. cit., p. 25.

More can be read at -
Brothers, Hear Our Defense (book #3)

https://contendingforthefaith.org/en/brothers-hear-our-defense/