Witness Lee's Local Church Cult

Originally posted by sonship

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

(1 John 5:7 NKJV)

THE ONE HERE OBVIOUSLY MEANS A UNITY OF THE THREE, NOT THE VERY SAME ONE AS WITNESS LEE TEACHES.

Thankyou for the supplied passages. I always enjoy to read them again and again.

Howeve ...[text shortened]... annot fully explain it, but we trust God and say "Amen" to what our trustworthy Father has said?

We have the Trinity Doctrine that has been bond on earth by the Church as truth. What the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

(1 John 5:7 NKJV)

THE ONE HERE OBVIOUSLY MEANS A UNITY OF THE THREE, NOT THE VERY SAME ONE AS WITNESS LEE TEACHES.

Originally posted by RJHinds
We have the Trinity Doctrine that has been bond on earth by the Church as truth. What the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

(1 John 5:7 NKJV)

THE ONE HERE OBVIOUSLY MEANS A UNITY OF THE THREE, NOT THE VERY SAME ONE AS WITNESS LEE TEACHES.

Are you a Catholic?

Originally posted by Kevin Lee Poracan
Are you a Catholic?

I was baptized in a Southern Baptist Church. My wife is a member of the United Methodist Church. But I just call myself a Christian.

Originally posted by RJHinds

I was baptized in a Southern Baptist Church. My wife is a member of the United Methodist Church. But I just call myself a Christian.

Many Christians have decided that designations like Southern Baptist and United Methodist are not good to denominate brothers. So you are not unlike myself in that regard.

The question is that - Since we clearly see that there are plural "churches" in the New Testament, then what distinguishes one church from another?

Watchman Nee and Witness Lee showed us clearly that the difference was purely geography and that we believers should "church" together according to localities.

You come shouting in copycat fashion - "Cult! Cult!" at this. It was not because you really looked into it firsthand. You jumped on a popularized viewpoint, I think, quite indiscriminately.

So your conscience does not permit you to call yourself a Baptist or a Methodist. We can understand that. We feel the same. You feel to be just a Christian - ie. just a brother in Christ - just a Christian believer.

Wonderful. We feel the same way. But how do we assemble together? How then should Christians "church" together? Not by denominational differences. But by localities.

That is what Nee and Lee pointed out in the New Testament and were blessed by God to carry out in practice.

We meet in Spirit and on the ground. And you cry "Cult! Witness Lee's Cult!"

Was the church is Jerusalem also a cult?
Was the church in Antioch also a cult?
Was the church in Corinth also a cult?
Was the church in Colossi also a cult?

Were all these churches following a cult too?

"What you see write in a scroll and send it to the seven churches:

to Ephesus
and to Smyrna
and to Pergamos
and to Thyatira
and to Sardis
and to Philadelphia
and to Laodicea.

... I saw seven golden lampstands, And in the midst of the lampstands One like the Son of Man ..." (See Revelation 1:11,12)

And if they were not a cult, how come the church in Dunn Loring or the church in Baltimore or the church in Boston is a cult?

Originally posted by sonship

I was baptized in a Southern Baptist Church. My wife is a member of the United Methodist Church. But I just call myself a Christian.

Many Christians have decided that designations like Southern Baptist and United Methodist are not good to denominate brothers. So you are not unlike myself in that regard.

The question is that - Since w ...[text shortened]... how come the church in Dunn Loring or the church in Baltimore or the church in Boston is a cult?

The reason I called them the Witness Lee's Local Church Cult is because I believe the members give excessive admiration for Witness Lee as having recovered the true teachings of the early Church, as if those true teachings have been lost. Another reason I refer to it as a cult is because its leader teaches a doctrine that differs from the Doctrine of the Trinity Creed of the Christian Church and this difference has already been declared to be a heretical teaching by the early universal Christian Church. I have explained this to you in great detail already.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The reason I called them the Witness Lee's Local Church Cult is because I believe the members give excessive admiration for Witness Lee as having recovered the true teachings of the early Church, as if those true teachings have been lost. Another reason I refer to it as a cult is because its leader teaches a doctrine that differs from the Doctrine of the Tr ...[text shortened]... by the early universal Christian Church. I have explained this to you in great detail already.

Get yourself off man! We are not a "cult". Neither do I say that Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult nor the Mormons. So back off!

Originally posted by RJHinds
The reason I called them the Witness Lee's Local Church Cult is because I believe the members give excessive admiration for Witness Lee as having recovered the true teachings of the early Church, as if those true teachings have been lost. Another reason I refer to it as a cult is because its leader teaches a doctrine that differs from the Doctrine of the Tr ...[text shortened]... by the early universal Christian Church. I have explained this to you in great detail already.

You're a Baptist! You don't have to follow the Creeds! Creeds are inadequate!

Originally posted by Kevin Lee Poracan
Get yourself off man! We are not a "cult". Neither do I say that Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult nor the Mormons. So back off!

Yes, the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons are cults too.

Originally posted by RJHinds

[b]The reason I called them the Witness Lee's Local Church Cult is because I believe the members give excessive admiration for Witness Lee as having recovered the true teachings of the early Church, as if those true teachings have been lost.

Is that the real reason? Or is it that you are annoyed that you cannot make any accusation you wish without being called on it using the very words of the one you are accusing?

For your re-education, the recovery of damaged, neglected, or lost truths by no means started with Witness Lee.

For about a thousand YEARS, Justification by Faith, though right there in the Bible, was neglected in favor of Catholic ideas. A brother Martin Luther was used by God to recover the truth.

No, we do not need to crawl up the cathedral steps and kiss the Pope's ring to be saved. Justification is by Faith. It is right there in Romans, in Galatians, in the Gospel of John.

Witness Lee was not even a twinkle in his mother's eye at the time God was mightily recovering the buried truth of Justification by Faith.

Sure, we admire Watchman Nee and Witness Lee for the recovery of Christ many vital truths including the ground of the church. So what? Maybe if you didn't try to slander a faithful bond servant of Christ with libelous misinformation, we would not feel to mention his name so much.

Besides, Witness Lee is gone to be with the Lord now, and you'll have to find someone else to blame for the spread and growth of the local churches.

Another reason I refer to it as a cult is because its leader teaches a doctrine that differs from the Doctrine of the Trinity Creed of the Christian Church and this difference has already been declared to be a heretical teaching by the early universal Christian Church. I have explained this to you in great detail already.

This has been debunked already.

Originally posted by sonship

[b]The reason I called them the Witness Lee's Local Church Cult is because I believe the members give excessive admiration for Witness Lee as having recovered the true teachings of the early Church, as if those true teachings have been lost.

Is that the real reason? Or is it that you are annoyed that you cannot make any accusation you wis ...[text shortened]... have explained this to you in great detail already. [/quote]

This has been debunked already.

I guess I slander Witness Lee with his own words. "The Son is the very same Father."

Here are the words of Witness Lee by which I slander him:

"THE SON IS THE FATHER, AND THE SON IS THE SPIRIT ....and the Lord Jesus who is the Son is also the Eternal Father. Our Lord is the Son, and He is also the Father."

Witness Lee, Concerning the Triune God, p. 18-19.

I say Jesus never claims to be the Father or the Holy Spirit.

"The Father, the Son, and the Spirit are not three separate Persons or three Gods; they are one God, one reality, one person."

Witness Lee, The Triune God to Be Life to the Tripaetite Man, 1970, p. 48.

I say Witness Less is teaching the idea that Christ Jesus, the Son, is the very SAME Person as the Father and the very SAME Person as the Holy Spirit, which was declared a false and heretical teaching along with the Arian heresy by the universal (catholic) Christian Church over 1600 years ago.

..."the entire Godhead, the Triune God, became flesh."

Witness Lee, God's New Testament Economy, 1986, p. 230.

I say only the Son (the Word) became flesh, not the Father or the Holy Spirit, according to the Christian doctrine of the Incarnation. The Incarnation in traditional Christianity is the belief that the second person of the Trinity, also known as God the Son or the Logos (Word), "became flesh" by being conceived in the womb of Mary.

If Christ Jesus the Son of God is the very same Person as the Holy Spirit and the very same Person as the Father, why did He say I will ask the Father to send ANOTHER comforter, the Holy Spirit, if they are all the SAME?

It does not make sense for Jesus to speak of ANOTHER, if He were actually talking about His very own Spirit within Him as Mr. Lee falsely teaches.

And why must the Son ask the Father anything, if He is that very Father?

It is nonsense to believe Jesus was saying He was going to ask Himself to send Himself to the disciples. Mr. Lee is suggesting that Jesus is a deceiver, like Satan.

Why does God say, "Let US make man in OUR image if God is just one person?

The following is taken from the Christian Creed on the Doctrine of the Trinity:

Now this is the catholic (universal) faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another, and that of the Holy Spirit still another.

Christian truth compels us to confess each person individually as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

First, this Universal Christian Creed says we are not to blend their Persons, which Mr. lee does when he denies that God is three Persons, but only one Person.

Second, this Universal Christian Creed says that each of these three persons are DISTINCT from one another. That means they are not the SAME Person. The cult leader Mr. Lee says the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the same person.

Third, this Universl Christian Creed says we are to confess each person individually as both God and Lord.

The word "person" is used to describe the three members of the Godhead because the word "person" is appropriate. A person is self-aware, can speak, love, hate, say "you," "yours," "me," "mine," etc. Each of the three persons in the Trinity demonstrates these qualities.

Orthodox Trinitarian Christians say that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit must be THREE distinct persons for there to be the intimacy of love between them.

Even though Witness Lee may actually know the true teachings of Christianity, he chooses to revel in his false teachings, as a ten year student of Witness Lee claims.

I believe the following is enough for me to identify Mr. Lee as a cult leader:

Here Lee is criticizing and misrepresenting Christians who believe in the Trinity Doctrine when he makes the following statement:

"They think of the Father as one Person, sending the Son, another Person, to accomplish redemption, after which the Son sends the Spirit, yet another Person.... To split the Godhead into three separate Persons is not the revelation of the Bible...."

Witness Lee, Life Messages, p. 164

Originally posted by RJHinds
Witness Lee's Local Church Cult

The Local Church (LC), known for its litigious activity in threatening to sue (and actually suing) individuals and groups that call them a “cult,” has been successful in forcing many organizations to retract the word “cult” in reference to them, as even the recent Christian Research Journal (CRI) admits.

It is a fact tha ...[text shortened]... ow:

http://normangeisler.net/articles/theLocalChurch/2009-ResponseToCRIDefenseLocalChurch.htm

Interesting can of worms you have opened.

Glimpsing through many posts, the question that comes to mind is of these 'churches, cults, and concepts' what is their bottom line?

If the church claims to be non-Christian, then what is its bottom line? What is the message it chooses to portray as it's main objective? and how to reach that goal?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Here are the words of Witness Lee by which I slander him:

"THE SON IS THE FATHER, AND THE SON IS THE SPIRIT ....and the Lord Jesus who is the Son is also the Eternal Father. Our Lord is the Son, and He is also the Father."

Witness Lee, Concerning the Triune God, p. 18-19.

I say Jesus never claims to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. ...[text shortened]... Persons is not the revelation of the Bible...."

Witness Lee, Life Messages, p. 164 [/quote]

Here are the words of Witness Lee by which I slander him:

Those were not the words.
Those are the words you don't like and disagree with.

The slanderous words are that he ran a cult.
The rest we have probably been over multiple times.

No need to repeat ad nauseum.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
Interesting can of worms you have opened.

Glimpsing through many posts, the question that comes to mind is of these 'churches, cults, and concepts' what is their bottom line?

If the church claims to be non-Christian, then what is its bottom line? What is the message it chooses to portray as it's main objective? and how to reach that goal?

I am only pointing out the mold on the bread.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Here are the words of Witness Lee by which I slander him:

"THE SON IS THE FATHER, AND THE SON IS THE SPIRIT ....and the Lord Jesus who is the Son is also the Eternal Father. Our Lord is the Son, and He is also the Father."

Witness Lee, Concerning the Triune God, p. 18-19.

I say Jesus never claims to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. ...[text shortened]... Persons is not the revelation of the Bible...."

Witness Lee, Life Messages, p. 164 [/quote]

LOL Here we go again! It's very funny! LOL. How many times we've already through this? And you didn't make an objection to the contendingforthefaith.org articles "Brothers Hear our Defense" and have done more research specifically the Affirmation and Critique. Simply relying what others said than what the actual writings of Witness Lee are. I'm completely done with this forum because you know what, RJHinds. Truly an unberean mind! And I really mean it! You do not have a carefully reading the whole matter and weighed the preponderance of evidence.😛

Hahahah this is exactly have no done research! I can see what you stated what Witness Lee make those taken-out of contexts.

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http://www.contendingforthefaith.org/responses/topics/trinity.html

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http://affcrit.com/archives.html

triunegod.org

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