Originally posted by robbie carrobie
dunno, when he was young, at nursery.

Wasted opportunity to help him improve his reasoning skills.

Much better to let kids work out that Father Christmas doesn't exist and the reasons why.

Otherwise you are just perpetuating the 'authority as source of knowledge' fallacy.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
it was good enough for me.

Yeah, but you are irrational.

Even when you do get the right answer it's for the wrong reasons.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Yeah, but you are irrational.

Even when you do get the right answer it's for the wrong reasons.

see the edit, as soon as you dismiss the possibility of magic your ludicrous assertion of applying the laws of physics fails, back to the drawing board for you wile e coyote, now if you dont mind, i have a rugby match to watch, the idea of remonstrating with you or doing that, well, you get the message.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
it was good enough for me and i dont think your reason is particularly solid, why, for you dismiss the possibility of magic and therefore a purely materialistic approach is a failure.

Again that is because you are ignorant and irrational.

I 'dismiss the possibility of magic" because there is absolutely no evidence of its existence in any way shape or form.

And if it did exist then we should have found it by now.

The probability of the existence of magic is way way way way below the reasonable doubt threshold.


My (and sciences) 'materialistic' approach is the single solitary most successful method of understanding our universe and has resulted in every technological and knowledge advance that we enjoy and benefit from today.

Your 'magic is real, I'll just believe what feels right faith based' approach has never resulted in any useful advance or gain in knowledge and has in fact frequently and persistently got in the way of and held back advances.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Again that is because you are ignorant and irrational.

I 'dismiss the possibility of magic" because there is absolutely no evidence of its existence in any way shape or form.

And if it did exist then we should have found it by now.

The probability of the existence of magic is way way way way below the reasonable doubt threshold.


My (and sci dge and has in fact frequently and persistently got in the way of and held back advances.

you have not provided a shred of evidence for any of your claims, you made the truth claim that God does not exists, evidence, nil, you have made another truth claim, evidence nil, look, i dont want to insult you, but your opinions are meaningless, your hate speech distasteful, is there not someone else you can pester?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you have not provided a shred of evidence for any of your claims, you made the truth claim that God does not exists, evidence, nil, you have made another truth claim, evidence nil, look, i dont want to insult you, but your opinions are meaningless, your hate speech distasteful, is there not someone else you can pester?

what evidence do you have that santa doesnt exist?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
what evidence do you have that santa doesnt exist?

none, its a personal belief, what evidence do you have?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you have not provided a shred of evidence for any of your claims, you made the truth claim that God does not exists, evidence, nil, you have made another truth claim, evidence nil, look, i dont want to insult you, but your opinions are meaningless, your hate speech distasteful, is there not someone else you can pester?

Again with the 'hate speech'... You evidently don't know the meaning of the term.

As for evidence.

There are two possibilities.

Either your god exists, or it doesn't exist.

And there are three belief positions you can hold about the existence of your god.


1: You can believe it exists.

2: You can have an absence of belief either way.

3: Or you can believe it doesn't exist.



1 and 3 require evidence sufficient to justify holding those beliefs.

2 is the neutral default position in the absence of evidence either way.

You're position is number 1, you believe your god exists.

So what's your evidence to justify believing that proposition?


I can justify my position (3) by pointing to the complete absence of any evidence
FOR the existence of your god, AND by pointing to the scientific explanation of the
universe which neither requires or includes any gods.

The fact that the universe is readily explicable without gods, and that gods are a
priori less likely than not-gods, means That I am justified in believing that your
god doesn't exist.



However for you to accept the evidence you would have to understand and agree
with the criterion upon which I evaluate evidence and what constitutes justification
for beliefs.


We don't agree on these things.

So what's the point in me listing all kinds of evidence if we don't have a common
reference point upon which to evaluate that evidence?


The only relevant discussion between us would be one of what constitutes evidence
and why.

Because unless we agree on that, actually presenting what we consider as evidence
gets us nowhere, as demonstrated by the Father Christmas example.



However if you want to accuse me of making claims without evidence (which is not
actually true, I have presented evidence many times on these forums, the fact that
I don't do it in every single post where I make the same claim doesn't mean I haven't
ever justified that claim) then I can respond that you are making claims without
evidence yourself.
Show me the evidence that there IS such a thing as magic or the supernatural.
Show me evidence that there IS a god, AND that it is YOUR god...

Otherwise you are just a hypocrite.

My evidence is the entire body of science which describes and explains the universe
without reference to or need of a god. Coupled with Bayesian reasoning and scepticism.


What's yours?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am an arteeeeest dude, you gotta respect that.

So am I dude, but I don't let fairy tales run my life. I actually think things through for myself, using the intelligence that your god supposedly gave us, using doubt which your religion does not allow, preferring instead to stop you from using your own intelligence to see through the morass of BS in the bible.

That said, I still respect the hell out of your guitar playing.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So am I dude, but I don't let fairy tales run my life. I actually think things through for myself, using the intelligence that your god supposedly gave us, using doubt which your religion does not allow, preferring instead to stop you from using your own intelligence to see through the morass of BS in the bible.

That said, I still respect the hell out of your guitar playing.

woa, respect dude, but you gotta accept the fact that for some people God is a reality, this does not mean that they are stupid, uneducated, delusional, incapable of rational thought, incapable of seeing the constituent parts of a problem so as to form an accurate appraisal of the whole or anything else, some of the greatest works of art (literature, poetry, prose, painting, music etc etc) have found inspiration from religious themes, you gotta respect that dude.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
woa, respect dude, but you gotta accept the fact that for some people God is a reality, this does not mean that they are stupid, uneducated, delusional, incapable of rational thought, incapable of seeing the constituent parts of a problem so as to form an accurate appraisal of the whole or anything else, some of the greatest works of art (literature, ...[text shortened]... nting, music etc etc) have found inspiration from religious themes, you gotta respect that dude.

No god is either real or it isn't.

People's belief either way has absolutely no effect on that.

God is no more real for people who believe in it than for those that don't.





People who believe in god are not necessarily (as you say) "stupid, uneducated,
delusional, incapable of rational thought, incapable of seeing the constituent parts
of a problem so as to form an accurate appraisal of the whole or anything else" ...

They are however BEING irrational when it comes to the question of the existence of
god.

They may or may not be capable of being rational, that will depend on the person in
question, but they are not being rational with regards to this specific question.

...some of the greatest works of art (literature, poetry, prose, painting, music
etc etc) have found inspiration from religious themes,

And?

People have (and do) find all kinds of things to inspire them.

Star Wars is considered one of the greatest Science Fiction films of all time (and is a
form of art) but that doesn't mean that the Star Wars universe is real, or that The Force
exists.


I am baffled as to what it is that we are supposed to 'respect' about the fact that people
have been inspired by ideas from ALL the worlds major religions.


Again...
You keep using that word...
I do not think it means what you think it means.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
dunno, when he was young, at nursery.

So at what point along the way did you forget that you believe Santa didn't exist? How does that happen?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
So at what point along the way did you forget that you believe Santa didn't exist? How does that happen?

dunno dude, cant remember 😵

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
dunno dude, cant remember 😵

There's a surprise.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
There's a surprise.

you believe in me right, we cool.