Working with a YEC

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
what part of "awesome son of god - stupid brainwashed pharisee children who's whole life revolves around the scriptures they studied" don't you understand?

i don't know about you but if i had a stupid child who will not understand what i am telling him, and the only way i could get him to behave was "behave or santa and the easter bunny will not like you n and all things fluffy before being crucified by the same savages he was trying to save?

Z if you are an athiest then I do understand your unbelief; if you are a christian I do not, i'm not sure which you are? Pointing you to scripture may not be wise if you are an athiest, but if you are a christian perhaps you will reconsider and choose to believe even if you don't see evidence.

(About Jesus) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him Col 1:16

(Faith in Word of God) Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Heb 11:3

(Creation through Christ) And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ. Eph 3:9

Originally posted by divegeester
Z if you are an athiest then I do understand your unbelief; if you are a christian I do not, i'm not sure which you are? Pointing you to scripture may not be wise if you are an athiest, but if you are a christian perhaps you will reconsider and choose to believe even if you don't see evidence.

(About Jesus) For by him were all things created, that ar ...[text shortened]... e beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ. Eph 3:9

oh i thought you were about to quote jesus saying genesis is awesome and true.

these quotes are nice, but they just say in different words what i already believe. and science can never disprove this.

all science can do is say "concept X was not put so in this universe by god, it was created as a result of Concept A and concept B". but still one can believe A and B were created by god. God is the infinity if you will. after each number you may find another number but god awaits you after the last theorem smiling at you and asking you to pick up the pace in discovering the universe. This idea is fine with me. I can believe in a god because there is no way for science to reach that point and prove or disprove him. I really think this universe has meaning and the meaning is God. Which is precisely the reason i don't believe(not accept, believe, because it isn't science) Genesis, i don't believe the bible is inspired by god because god is not the maniacal mass murderer portrayed in the OT. and i believe that the new testament contains moral guidelines that may one day become obsolete, except the "love each other and love god"

believing in god doesn't mean abandoning all reason. it doesnt mean believing in what others tell you god tells them. believing in god simply means believing in god. all others pay cash.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
oh i thought you were about to quote jesus saying genesis is awesome and true.

these quotes are nice, but they just say in different words what i already believe. and science can never disprove this.

all science can do is say "concept X was not put so in this universe by god, it was created as a result of Concept A and concept B". but still one can be ...[text shortened]... you god tells them. believing in god simply means believing in god. all others pay cash.

So you believe in God, ok, which God? Or do you just believe in an idea that a god would be good idea if they were like Jesus or maybe a bit like some other nice person.......me for instance?

Originally posted by divegeester
So you believe in God, ok, which God? Or do you just believe in an idea that a god would be good idea if they were like Jesus or maybe a bit like some other nice person.......me for instance?

Or maybe it would be a good idea to believe in the expression of God that Jesus proposes?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi

believing in god doesn't mean abandoning all reason. it doesnt mean believing in what others tell you god tells them. believing in god simply means believing in god. all others pay cash.[/b]

What good then does it do you to believe in God? You say that your own morality supercedes all others presented to you, even if it were inspired by God, so who needs God? Really all you need to do is trust in your own finite intuition, instinct, and reason. Who needs God?

Originally posted by whodey
What good then does it do you to believe in God? You say that your own morality supercedes all others presented to you, even if it were inspired by God, so who needs God? Really all you need to do is trust in your own finite intuition, instinct, and reason. Who needs God?

god is the parent who doesn't run to help the child every time he falls and scrapes his knees. i take comfort that god is always with me, silent witness to my struggle in life. i make my own way in life and try to do as much good as possible. and if i love my neighbor and love god for creating this universe all the rest is just unnecessary.

i didn't say my morality supersedes the others presented to me and inspired by god. i said that there is no way to know for sure if the ones telling me how to live my life are really god's servants or deluded fools with megalomaniac tendencies, that god choose them and only them to convey his message. god gave me reason and a sense of justice(well my parents did and a lucky set of circumstances but god can be behind them), i make my own path because i am responsible for my actions. i will not accept paul or some priest who never even met jesus tell me that homosexuals are an abomination in the eyes of god. i will not accept the same megalomaniac priests tell me what god wants for me and for us just because they think i am not blessed enough to know for myself what is love for god and for my neighbor, i will not accept fairy tales presented as proof just because cardinals dressed in gold and 5000 dollar shoes do not wish to admit that if they accept part of the bible to be untrue, they might have to question other parts and they cannot judge anything for themselves.

the original message of god was in the old testament(and other holy texts from other religions). jesus came and changed that. there was change and we embraced it, what are we waiting for now, a second coming so that jesus would tell us what the upgrades to the bible are? or will we start thinking for ourselves and accept the fact that jesus awaits us beyond death, he will not come a second time to hold our hand. (no surprise there seeing as how we treated him last time he visited)

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
god is the parent who doesn't run to help the child every time he falls and scrapes his knees. i take comfort that god is always with me, silent witness to my struggle in life. i make my own way in life and try to do as much good as possible. and if i love my neighbor and love god for creating this universe all the rest is just unnecessary.

i didn't say ...[text shortened]... time to hold our hand. (no surprise there seeing as how we treated him last time he visited)

And you see nothing arrogant about thinking a 'god' capable of inventing a universe would have some reason to be with humans individually, kind of like a scientist studying ants could lead a theistic ant to conclude the scientist really cares about each and every ant in its world?

Originally posted by sonhouse
And you see nothing arrogant about thinking a 'god' capable of inventing a universe would have some reason to be with humans individually, kind of like a scientist studying ants could lead a theistic ant to conclude the scientist really cares about each and every ant in its world?

doesn't a child care about his toy? what if the toy is surprisingly complex and still manages to entertain the child. what if the toy manages to surprise the child making the same mistakes granted but in brand new exciting ways? today the spanish inquisition, tomorrow the german death camps. what if the toy does good things too? today the renaissance tomorrow the cure for cancer and Wall-e?

why do you think it is arrogant to believe a supreme being is capable of caring? god was absolutely alone before the universe, how picky do you think he is?