Works first then 'Abode'

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ said .. WORKS FIRST .. then he will dwell with you.

Sorry to sink your little fantasy island.

But how does one do these works without having knowledge of what works to do?

Originally posted by galveston75
But how does one do these works without having knowledge of what works to do?

I thought it was abundantly clear what good works were required. Christ did not leave that to your imagination.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I thought it was abundantly clear what good works were required. Christ did not leave that to your imagination.

I didn't ask what the works were, I asked how would one know what the works were if they didn't have the knowledge of what to do. One can't perform a task if one does not know what the task is or understand what the task will accomplish.

Originally posted by galveston75
I didn't ask what the works were, I asked how would one know what the works were if they didn't have the knowledge of what to do. One can't perform a task if one does not know what the task is or understand what the task will accomplish.

I really dont understand.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I really dont understand.

No problem. Maybe where I'm confusing you is most people are good and know what good and decent things we are to do to our fellow man in our everyday actions. Yes this is important and something God does notice.
But the works I'm speaking of and maybe a couple others here are too is the extra things a Christian has been commishioned by Jesus to do as in becoming teachers or "fishers" of men.
So what I'm asking is how do we learn how to do that? It's not a natural thing for most to teach and most have to be taught how to do this with the spiritual knowledge to do it well.
So simply how do we get this knowledge? I get the impression according to you that we don't need to take the time to learn it from the Bible but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by galveston75
No problem. Maybe where I'm confusing you is most people are good and know what good and decent things we are to do to our fellow man in our everyday actions. Yes this is important and something God does notice.
But the works I'm speaking of and maybe a couple others here are too is the extra things a Christian has been commishioned by Jesus to do as i ...[text shortened]... you that we don't need to take the time to learn it from the Bible but I could be wrong.

If the question is how do we get the spiritual knowledge to teach?
Answer is read what Christ and the Apostles said and teach that .. nothing more , nothing less.

Whats your answer?

Originally posted by Rajk999
If the question is how do we get the spiritual knowledge to teach?
Answer is read what Christ and the Apostles said and teach that .. nothing more , nothing less.

Whats your answer?

Yes it's the same. But I was understanding you to say in the postings here that knowledge is not important. Am I wrong?

Originally posted by galveston75
Yes it's the same. But I was understanding you to say in the postings here that knowledge is not important. Am I wrong?

Teachers/preachers need knowledge. Not everyone is a teacher.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Teachers/preachers need knowledge. Not everyone is a teacher.

Thanks...

Originally posted by galveston75
Thanks...

Dont take it as an insult .. 🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ said :
[quote]John 14:21-24 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said un ...[text shortened]... g references from the Bible that this sequence is correct and the one Christ laid out is wrong.

Note that Jesus does not equate keeping his commands with loving him, as if the performance of his commands were literally the "love" of which he speaks. He says only that those who love him keep his commandments. Love (and by implication, faith) comes first, then obedience. Christ's teaching here is really no different than that found in Genesis: "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness" (Gen. 15:6). How plausible is it to say that Abram did not love the Lord until he had obeyed him?

Originally posted by JS357
Maybe the idea is to rely on the spiritual descendants of Christ to understand and transmit the lessons of the Bible, according to our needs. After all, "The Church Precedes the New Testament."

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/wbible.htm

Chapter III.

"Our Blessed Lord Himself never, so far as we know, wrote a line of Scri ...[text shortened]... erving and handing down the Word of God as they had received it, to all generations. "

Utter nonsense. Stick to some other topic. Christianity is not your forte.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Dont take it as an insult .. 🙂

No I didn't. 🙂

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Note that Jesus does not equate keeping his commands with loving him, as if the performance of his commands were literally the "love" of which he speaks. He says only that those who love him keep his commandments. Love (and by implication, faith) comes first, then obedience. Christ's teaching here is really no different than that found in Genes ...[text shortened]... 5:6). How plausible is it to say that Abram did not love the Lord until he had obeyed him?

I think I will stick with what the Bible states very clearly and concisely rather than your version Epi.

First, here is a commonsense question. In what relationship can someone claim to love or believe and not demonstrate that love/belief via action. Answer : NONE. Not among men and not between God and man. Could God claim to love us without action? NO. God acted and sent Christ to save us - thats the grace of God .. thats ACTION. Not just talk. Could Christ claim to love us and NOT show it via ACTION? Again NO. Christ demonstrated and proved his love by his death on the cross. Do you think that Christ will expect any less of us? No .. Christ wants action. Love = action. Love is not talk.

Belief without action is not belief
LOVE without action is NOT LOVE.
If you want references to support that in Bible I can quote them by the dozens.

Next, Abraham believed God and it was counted for righteousness. Is that the whole story? I dont think so. Abraham was called upon to demonstrate that love/belief and he passed the test. If he had failed to prove that love by obedience then his love or belief would have been empty or dead according to James.

Finally, Christ said that you show your love for him by keeping his commandments.

"..If a man love me, he will keep my words.
He that loveth me not, keepeth not my sayings..."

Love is not an abstract thing. Its a DOING and an ACTION thing. Love requires proof and must be demonstrated. Performance of the Christ commands is DEFINLTELY EQUATED WITH LOVING HIM. Obey Christ = showing love for others = showing love for Christ

Here is the proof ..

Matt 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Matt 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Utter nonsense. Stick to some other topic. Christianity is not your forte.

I was offering a possible explanation of what Suzianne said. She hasn't confirmed this so I won't assume it is what she meant. From the standpoint of Apostolic succession, divisiveness over what the Bible says is due to those not qualified, presenting themselves as authoritative as to its meaning. I am pretty well versed in this view, although I do not personally hold that any human is in a privileged position, or, at least, it is not obvious who those people are. By dismissing what I said without giving a reason, I think you are identifying yourself with them.

In the post you are calling nonsense, I reported on an understanding of the role of Jesus' spiritual descendants, an understanding that has a strong heritage in Christianity. Among those churches recognizing apostolic succession are the Catholic Church, Anglican Churches, Lutheran churches, Methodist churches, and Latter-day Saints. Of course you are free to call it nonsense.