Originally posted by FreakyKBH [b]His warnings were, in fact, nothing but play acting. Eh? Based on the sentences before, this statement not only dies of idiocy, but of loneliness, as well.
It is impossible that Adam could have taken an omniscient god by surprise. That's kind of the idea behind omniscience, don't you think?
So it is abundantly clear that if mankin ...[text shortened]... at is exactly where god wanted them to be. Another lonely assertion based on ignorance.[/b]
Do you have a critique of any substance, or do you just toss off cryptic one-liners as it suits your temper?
Originally posted by FreakyKBH [b]His warnings were, in fact, nothing but play acting. Eh? Based on the sentences before, this statement not only dies of idiocy, but of loneliness, as well.
It is impossible that Adam could have taken an omniscient god by surprise. That's kind of the idea behind omniscience, don't you think?
So it is abundantly clear that if mankin ...[text shortened]... at is exactly where god wanted them to be. Another lonely assertion based on ignorance.[/b]
Not at all. If God already knew Adam would fall, why bother warning him? What was the point? There wasn't one.
Likewise, God created the universe with perfect foreknowledge of what'd happen in it. He created an Adam that *would* fall - that had no choice but to fall.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung Wasn't the apple what gave knowledge of good and evil though? And this is in respect to Christianity, which means knowledge of not-sinning and sinning. If I didn't eat the apple how could I know eating it was a sin and that there would be consequences?
I thought this was quite interesting - before the thread fell into disrepute.
I suppose the answer would be that God told them not to eat it, and that was really all they needed to know, if they trusted him.
Originally posted by XanthosNZ Except that he knew they wouldn't trust him.
While omniscience appears to be the buzz topic of the week around here, I have no idea whether this is correct or not.
In fact, I'm yet to be persuaded that God ever claimed this level and kind of foreknowledge. I know that some people assert all the 'omnis' as settled dogma, but to me this one is quite problematic. Omnipotent I'm happy with, and omnipresent, but does omniscient really mean everything is known beforehand?
Scriptural references preferred. Belief in the scriptural references not important.
Originally posted by danielsmith Question for all people:
Would you still eat the apple knowing what God's response was?
Just a reminder of what Gods response actually was:
"Your now too clever to be in my Garden, so get out!"
Another of those seemingly obvious bits of the Bible that on closer inspection dont make any sense at all.
Originally posted by orfeo While omniscience appears to be the buzz topic of the week around here, I have no idea whether this is correct or not.
In fact, I'm yet to be persuaded that God ever claimed this level and kind of foreknowledge. I know that some people assert all the 'omnis' as settled dogma, but to me this one is quite problematic. Omnipotent I'm happy with, and omnipres ...[text shortened]... /b]?
Scriptural references preferred. Belief in the scriptural references not important.
In Genesis it doesn't seem like God knew the future.
Where did the idea of omniscience come from anyway?
Originally posted by rwingett Do you have a critique of any substance, or do you just toss off cryptic one-liners as it suits your temper?
The proof is in the pudding... or, in this case, it is missing. You offer two or three sentences as part of a formula, and then jump to a conclusion entirely unsupported by the sentences before it. You have yet to prove (or offer anything that even suggests, for that matter) that God's foreknowledge of our actions somehow negates the freedom of such actions.
Originally posted by scottishinnz Not at all. If God already knew Adam would fall, why bother warning him? What was the point? There wasn't one.
Likewise, God created the universe with perfect foreknowledge of what'd happen in it. He created an Adam that *would* fall - that had no choice but to fall.
God's a git.
If God already knew Adam would fall, why bother warning him? What was the point? There wasn't one. Actually, that was precisely the point. Had God not told them to refrain from the fruit, there would be no choice for them to make. His directions were clear: the boundaries were known by both Adam and the woman.
[b] He created an Adam that *would* fall - that had no choice but to fall.[b]
Actually, He created an Adam that could fall as well as keep from falling, as evidence in the indterminate time in which both he and the woman enjoyed the Garden prior to their fateful decisions.
Originally posted by orfeo While omniscience appears to be the buzz topic of the week around here, I have no idea whether this is correct or not.
In fact, I'm yet to be persuaded that God ever claimed this level and kind of foreknowledge. I know that some people assert all the 'omnis' as settled dogma, but to me this one is quite problematic. Omnipotent I'm happy with, and omnipres ...[text shortened]... /b]?
Scriptural references preferred. Belief in the scriptural references not important.
God's foreknowledege is based on the decree.
Here are some Scriptural references, as requested, relative to the omniscience of God.
Psalm 33:13-15
139:1-4
147:4,5
Proverbs 15:3
Malachai 3:16
Matthew 6:8
10:29,30
Acts 15:8
Hebrews 4:3, 13
1 John 3:20
For starters
Originally posted by FreakyKBH [b]If God already knew Adam would fall, why bother warning him? What was the point? There wasn't one. Actually, that was precisely the point. Had God not told them to refrain from the fruit, there would be no choice for them to make. His directions were clear: the boundaries were known by both Adam and the woman.
He created an Adam that *wo ...[text shortened]... minate time in which both he and the woman enjoyed the Garden prior to their fateful decisions.
Your arguments only make sense if omniscience is not true. If it is true, then God created the universe knowing that Adam would fall, even if Adam didn't know it. God could have created the universe any other way, he's omnipotent, right? But he didn't. It's either perfect foreknowledge, or ultimate power, one of them has to go for the bible to make sense.
Would you eat the apple?
30 May '06 02:11
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