Originally posted by divegeester
Godhead is just a term for sovereign entity of god himself. Trinity is an attempt at dividing that godhead into three. The word "Godhead" is not a teaching or doctrine.

Godhead still involves God, Jesus and Holy Spirit. 3.

It's not really the word itself, it's the 3 in 1 concept, as is the Trinity concept.

I know you've made the effort to explain this before, but I apologize, I just don't get it.

For example, a Jew actually believes in ONE God, without any other 'parts' of either a Trinity or a Godhead.

Or, a Christian may believe in ONE God, if he leaves Jesus as son of God only, and not God....or a 'part' of God.

Originally posted by chaney3
Godhead still involves God, Jesus and Holy Spirit. 3.

It's not really the word itself, it's the 3 in 1 concept, as is the Trinity concept.

I know you've made the effort to explain this before, but I apologize, I just don't get it.

For example, a Jew actually believes in ONE God, without any other 'parts' of either a Trinity or a Godhead.

Or, a Ch ...[text shortened]... ay believe in ONE God, if he leaves Jesus as son of God only, and not God....or a 'part' of God.

Firstly you are confusing the word "godhead" with a teaching. The Godhead can be either trinity or non trinity, it's still the godhead. Therefore is GoaD had used the word "Godhead" in his post there would be nothing to disagree with.

Trinity means three distinct people in one godhead. It's nonsense and not in the Bible.

The oneness teaching, which is closer to what I believe, describes one god, one entity being revealed in three or more manifestations.

Originally posted by divegeester
Firstly you are confusing the word "godhead" with a teaching. The Godhead can be either trinity or non trinity, it's still the godhead. Therefore is GoaD had used the word "Godhead" in his post there would be nothing to disagree with.

Trinity means three distinct people in one godhead. It's nonsense and not in the Bible.

The oneness teaching, whi ...[text shortened]... to what I believe, describes one god, one entity being revealed in three or more manifestations.

The oneness teaching, which is closer to what I believe, describes one god, one entity being revealed in three or more manifestations.

Would that be three or more "distinct" manifestations? If so, then how is that different from the "Trinity"?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]The oneness teaching, which is closer to what I believe, describes one god, one entity being revealed in three or more manifestations.

Would that be three or more "distinct" manifestations? If so, then how is that different from the "Trinity"?[/b]

I'm not convinced, like others seem to be, that Jesus 'clearly' tried to get a message across that He was 'in any way' God, or a manifestation of God.

It comes down to personal interpretation of very particular Bible verses.

I defer to Jesus praying to God before the crucifixion. How can one perceive that Jesus was either talking to Himself, or to a 'manifestation' of Himself.

Originally posted by chaney3
I'm not convinced, like others seem to be, that Jesus 'clearly' tried to get a message across that He was 'in any way' God, or a manifestation of God.

It comes down to personal interpretation of very particular Bible verses.

I defer to Jesus praying to God before the crucifixion. How can one perceive that Jesus was either talking to Himself, or to a 'manifestation' of Himself.

Jesus never claimed to be God.

All arguments that I've seen to the contrary have been poorly reasoned - if not absurd - and fly in the face of many of the words He spoke while He walked the Earth of which you've provided but one example.

Jesus wants His followers to become sons of God as He was a son of God.
Jesus wants His followers to become one with God as He was one with God.

BTW, I responded to your post on the "Eternal suffering? Or eternal death?" thread if you haven't seen it.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]The oneness teaching, which is closer to what I believe, describes one god, one entity being revealed in three or more manifestations.

Would that be three or more "distinct" manifestations? If so, then how is that different from the "Trinity"?[/b]

My post you are replying to explains it very clearly.
3 separate, distinct individuals vs one individual in three different forms.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Jesus never claimed to be God.

All arguments that I've seen to the contrary have been poorly reasoned - if not absurd - and fly in the face of many of the words He spoke while He walked the Earth of which you've provided but one example.

Jesus wants His followers to become sons of God as He was a son of God.
Jesus wants His followers to become on ...[text shortened]... ponded to your post on the "Eternal suffering? Or eternal death?" thread if you haven't seen it.

A simple Google search will give you another perspective.

Originally posted by divegeester
My post you are replying to explains it very clearly.
3 separate, distinct individuals vs one individual in three different forms.

This is seriously confusing.
No matter how you say it, each concept has ONE God, divided somehow, into 3 forms.
1=3 trinity
3=1 godhead
Or.....vice versa??

Originally posted by chaney3
This is seriously confusing.
No matter how you say it, each concept has ONE God, divided somehow, into 3 forms.
1=3 trinity
3=1 godhead
Or.....vice versa??

No it isn't.

Trinity = 3 distinct people in one godhead, each also manifested separately

Unity = 1 person/personality manifested in three forms, it the same person.

Originally posted by chaney3
Where did the required Y chromosome come from in the conception of Jesus, which comes from the human father?

The same place that Adam got his y chromosome. Jesus just might have gotten his x chromosome the same way as Adam too.

Where did Eve get her two x chromosomes?

Originally posted by divegeester
A simple Google search will give you another perspective.

Actually a Google search seems to yield a multitude of perspectives.

For example, I've often seen where people seem to describe the Trinity in terms of three distinct manifestations of the same entity.

Seems that like you, they can provide a one or two sentence description of what they each entail and the difference, but then things really go sideways when they try to elaborate and it ends up being a nonsensical mess.

Originally posted by Eladar
The same place that Adam got his y chromosome. Jesus just might have gotten his x chromosome the same way as Adam too.

Where did Eve get her two x chromosomes?

Same place Adam got his x and y.

But no, obviously the x Jesus had came from Mary. He was her son.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

Jesus never claimed to be God.
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Jesus claimed to be God dispensed into man ON HIS WAY to be God dispensed into His followers too.

Paul, as he walked on the earth after receiving the Lord Jesus, spoke of the triune God in the experience of the Christians. First we'll examine what the Apostle Paul said. Then we'll trace it back to see it was the same thing that Jesus taught.

1.) What the Apostle Paul taught about the Christ being God (Rom. 8):

" But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. (v.9)
But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. (v.10)
And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you. " (v.11) ]

The seamless and interchangeable way in which Paul uses these titles - The Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, Christ, the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead proves that the apostolic teaching is Christ is God.

The statement is to those EXPERIENCING the reality as a kind of "shop talk". Obviously those in whom the Spirit of God - the Spirit of Christ does NOT indwell because they do not believe or receive Him cannot as of yet share in this.

But to the Christian recipients of the letter to the Romans the truth is clear.
We cannot detect any experiential separation between these "Persons" -

The Spirit of God - Who is also - The Spirit of Christ - Who is also - Christ - Who is also - The Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead.

All of these indwell or live within the man or woman who has received Christ. In receiving Christ they simultaneously receive "the One who raised Jesus from the dead" as the self same "Person". They can discern no separation.

The one who receives Christ has received the Father who raised Jesus from the dead (Acts 4:22,32; 3:15,26; 4:10; 5:30,33,34,37)

The Spirit of God received is the Spirit of Christ received and indwelling.
The Spirit of Christ indwelling is Christ Himself received and indwelling.
Christ Himself indwelling is the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead received and indwelling.

So we are quite justified to speak of the three-one God or Triune God..
For there is no separation yet there is distinction in the Father, Son, and Spirit.

2.) Paul is just experiencially echoing what Jesus taught in John 14:

" And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever, (v.16)
Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you.(v.17)
I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you. (v.18) (John 14:16-18)

In this passage the Person who abides WITH the disciples will in the future be IN the disciples. That is, Jesus Christ Who was among them and with them, will after His resurrection be IN them. He is coming to them in His form as "Another Comforter".
Christ will not leave them "as orphans". But He will come to them as the Spirit of reality and the " Another Comforter"

The 'He" of verse 17 suddenly changes to the "I" of verse 18.

" ... whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him ; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you. (v.17)
I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you." (v.18)

John 14 and Romans 8 together, with many other passages, prove that the God entering into believers is Jesus Christ. Though there is distinction between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit there is no way to detect any separation between Them.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Same place Adam got his x and y.

But no, obviously the x Jesus had came from Mary. He was her son.

I love how Christians often pronounce things they could not possibly know.

If Jesus's Y chromosome did not come from another human being, then it is perfectly possible that his X didn't either. God could easily have:
a) magically added a sperm to Mary's womb.
b) magically added a fertilised egg to Mary's womb.
There is no way to know which and nothing in the Bible indicates which.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

Jesus wants His followers to become sons of God as He was a son of God.
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That is right. But that is not possible if Jesus Christ is not the life of God.
And nothing can be more subjective to a person than that person's very life.

So Christ being "the life", "the resurrection and the life", "the bread of life" in Whom "was life" meaning "the life of God" is God.

Fallen man was not only alienated from God. But they are "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18)

So Christ being the life of God manifested in a Man is God. He is that eternal life that was with the Father.

"And the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and report to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us." (1 John 1:3)

There will be no men becoming sons of God without receiving Jesus Christ, the life of God manifested and dispensed into the redeemed and saved human beings.

No, by doing the best you can, you will not be made a son of God.
By receiving God manifest in the Savior Jesus as Lord and being filled with His saturating Holy Spirit you can only become a son of God.


Jesus wants His followers to become one with God as He was one with God.
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That is right. But there will be no one becoming one with God refusing to receive God manifest in the Son - the Lord Jesus.

The unsaved as "the sons of disobedience" and by nature "children of wrath"

"And you, though dead in your offenses and sins. In which you once walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit which is now operating in THE SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE;

Among whom we also all conducted ourselves once in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature CHILDREN OF WRATH, even as the rest." (Eph. 2:1-3)