You cant get something from nothing

Originally posted by RJHinds
Relax. You can do it. Just start with a little praying to God in the name
of Jesus. Then say a few HalleluYahs. Listen to some Christian praise
music. Then you can study the Holy Bible.

All of which I obviously won't do, unless I have the gift of faith, or some good evidence to think that God exists.

Originally posted by twhitehead
All of which I obviously won't do, unless I have the gift of faith, or some good evidence to think that God exists.

May I add.............

The anthropic principle is all that is required for honest persons to realize the reality of God but of course the honesty must be there.

If I had the time I could write a list of 1 million items pointing to plan, purpose, design and function......it would not be difficult.

And another list could not be produced giving us examples of spontaneous uncaused events.

Originally posted by twhitehead
All of which I obviously won't do, unless I have the gift of faith, or some good evidence to think that God exists.

You will have to force yourself a little at first, just like starting an exercise
plan.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The term is used for man's understanding, not God's. God, of course, needs
no rest; but we do. So God's rest is an example for man.

What?????????

Originally posted by wolfgang59
What?????????

Well, is rest meaningless to you. Aren't you glad to have a day of rest every
seven days after working hard for six days of the week?

Originally posted by RJHinds
You will have to force yourself a little at first, just like starting an exercise
plan.

....which I obviously won't do, unless I have the gift of faith, or some good evidence to think that God exists.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I do not dispute that, nor have I claimed otherwise.

I personally however, do not happen to have 'faith' in God. I feel no motivation to believe in God without evidence. Since RJHinds tells me his faith was a gift from God, I can only assume that God chose not to give me that gift.

Yet strangely enough, Christians tell me, that I will be punished because of my lack of faith, whereas they will get off scot free.

Can we discuss the matter of "believing" first?

The second point of the Gift of faith and the third about punishment, can we discuss these later?

About believing in God... Perhaps it is just difference of glossary/terms/semantics when it comes to the word belief or faith. But once we have it proven that an object exists, we generally acknowledge that that object exists and then just go on, we do not believe or have faith in it. Like the evidence telling us that the earth is round.
So your statement should have been "I feel no motivation to acknowledge the existence of a God without evidence."

However, to use the phrase "believe in God without evidence" is contradictory... since a belief does not require evidence, it is a trust, an attitude, a hope ..

Not to split hairs but still....

Originally posted by twhitehead
....which I obviously won't do, unless I have the gift of faith, or some good evidence to think that God exists.

Maybe you would benefit from reading this on faith and belief:

http://briankim.net/blog/2007/04/the-difference-between-belief-and-faith/

Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe you would benefit from reading this on faith and belief:

http://briankim.net/blog/2007/04/the-difference-between-belief-and-faith/

I cannot imagine anyone benefitting from that rubbish! To suggest that the Wright brothers did not "believe" that Kitty Hawk would fly but insrtead had "faith" is ridiculous and demeens their achievements!

Here is a quote from Wiki

With characteristic caution, the brothers first flew the 1902 glider as an unmanned kite, as they had done with their two previous versions. Rewarding their wind tunnel work, the glider produced the expected lift

Does that sound like faith?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
I cannot imagine anyone benefitting from that rubbish! To suggest that the Wright brothers did not "believe" that Kitty Hawk would fly but insrtead had "faith" is ridiculous and demeens their achievements!

Here is a quote from Wiki

With characteristic caution, the brothers first flew the 1902 glider as an unmanned kite, as they had done with the ...[text shortened]... r wind tunnel work, the glider produced the expected lift

Does that sound like faith?

You have gotten hung-up on the fact that not all his examples are
perfectly accurate, and miss the underlying ideas. God may be
unprovable to you now, but after taking the leap of faith you can
believe.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You have gotten hung-up on the fact that not all his examples are
perfectly accurate, and miss the underlying ideas. God may be
unprovable to you now, but after taking the leap of faith you can
believe.

In other words just having the epiphany of faith is proof in itself needing no other verification.

Which of course is exactly what the designers of your religion WANTS you to believe, it makes their goal of making billion of exact copies of people who get duped into believing that crap so much easier, so they can proceed with their real goal, building a power base.

You fell for it hook line and sinker. I feel sorry for your mind.

Originally posted by sonhouse
In other words just having the epiphany of faith is proof in itself needing no other verification.

Which of course is exactly what the designers of your religion WANTS you to believe, it makes their goal of making billion of exact copies of people who get duped into believing that crap so much easier, so they can proceed with their real goal, building a power base.

You fell for it hook line and sinker. I feel sorry for your mind.

I'm glad to hear you have some compassion left. You still can be
saved by accepting Jesus as your Savior. Don't let the time pass away.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You have gotten hung-up on the fact that not all his examples are
perfectly accurate, and miss the underlying ideas. God may be
unprovable to you now, but after taking the leap of faith you can
believe.

I won't waste my time visiting any of your future recommended sites then.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
I won't waste my time visiting any of your future recommended sites then.

We don't live in a perfect world with perfect people. So get over it.
Make the best of what is available and work toward perfecting yourself
by learning from others, even though the others may not be perfect
in every way themselves.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe you would benefit from reading this on faith and belief:

http://briankim.net/blog/2007/04/the-difference-between-belief-and-faith/

Maybe I would, but obviously I won't waste my time reading it because I lack the necessary faith or evidence to think it worth my while.