You must be born again

Originally posted by LemonJello
oh, i see. so how do i get a magic decoder ring? does it come in Cheerios or Frosted Flakes? Cracker Jack boxes?

You recieve Jesus into your life and get filled with the Holy Spirit !

Originally posted by oilman
You recieve Jesus into your life and get filled with the Holy Spirit !

it seems to me there is a problem with your line of thinking: according to you, i can't really understand what is written in the bible until i start to believe; but i see no reason for me to start to believe unless i can already really understand what is written in the bible.

Originally posted by oilman
It is almost impossible to talk to you about the things of God , seeing that the bible is spitually discerned. When a non-believer reads it they are just words in a book subject to their interpretation. But when a believer reads the bible it is under the direction of the Holy Spirit and the Word becomes alive. Some things are to read for a figurative interpre ...[text shortened]... r, yes, even the unbeliever so they can see that the Lord is good and His mercy endures forever.

Wouldn't you say that it is practically impossible for believers guided by the Holy Spirit to interpret the Word of God correctly? As evidence consider that the vast majority of xtians disagree with each other about many things in the Bible. Is the Holy Spirit sending different signals to different people?

Of course, your interpretation is the correct one. Your decoder ring comes with an official seal of authenticity signed by Yahweh himself!

According to a lot of thumpers on here, God has given us his Holy Word as evidence of him that we might believe. So, they tell me, as evidence to induce belief, I should look again to the Bible. Read the Word of God (yet again), and you will be convinced that he is real. But now you've made that impossible! You see now I have to first believe that he is real before I can read the Bible and be convinced that he real. So who's right? You or them?

Originally posted by LemonJello
it seems to me there is a problem with your line of thinking: according to you, i can't really understand what is written in the bible until i start to believe; but i see no reason for me to start to believe unless i can already really understand what is written in the bible.

Ah you beat me to it!

Originally posted by LemonJello
it seems to me there is a problem with your line of thinking: according to you, i can't really understand what is written in the bible until i start to believe; but i see no reason for me to start to believe unless i can already really understand what is written in the bible.

I see your point and it is rational. I can only tell you how I came to Jesus, then maybe you can glean something from it. I came to the conclusion, that life made no sense. What is the average life, 70 years? Then a hole in the ground. Now some people may think that many good things can come out of that. That is, life without God. But as Solomon declared, it is all vanity...

Then I saw the movie "The Exorsist"...this was when it first came out at the theaters. My friends told me that it was based on a true story. Needless to say, it scared the bejesus out of me...now I know what you might say...I'm nuts!..and thats ok...But I did research the facts. This revealed that it was a little boy not a girl. The rest was vague. But the supernatural was involved, or at least much unexplained happenings...I also did some study on the paranormal, ghosts, etc....In third world countries, the supernatural is more prevalent. We don't see as much here in the good ole USA. There are reasons for this but I will not go into it here.
Anyway, to make a long story short, I came to the conclusion that if there is a devil there has to be God....I will not bore you with the rest .
I studied many religions, I was on a quest. I was eventually led to the bible...it did not make sense to me either, at first. But God knew I was honestly looking for Him...then as I persisted, it started to unfold. I have come to the conclusion that the bible is rich in truth. But it is like mining for treasure, I found little nuggets of gold that I could readily apply to my life. And it has been that way for the last thirty or so years.

I have also come to believe that the bible also contains not only truth, but God's will for man. It teaches doctrine(right believing), reproof(tells me when I am in error) and Correction(back to right believing).
I have also learned that there are "keys" to "unlocking" the bible.
These keys, are simple and logical.
I am guessing the next comment to come in the form of a post.

Why didn't God make it easy? Well my answer is...He did! We tend to make it difficult. That's why it has been said that it is easier for a child to understand..Most of us have already been "indoctrinated" with the things of the world...ie, Doubt, selfishness, jealousy, self serving, pleasures, and so on.
There is a verse in Proverbs 25:2 that paraphrased says God did not make it easy to find Truth. We have to work at it. The lazy, the halfhearted attempts, the critics, etc. will have a difficult road in finding Him.
I know this whole thing sounds like a catch 22...maybe someone more articulate than myself can explain it better...🙂

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I see your point and it is rational. I can only tell you how I came to Jesus, then maybe you can glean something from it. I came to the conclusion, that life made no sense. What is the average life, 70 years? Then a hole in the ground. Now some people may think that many good things can come out of that. That is, life without God. But as Solomon declared ...[text shortened]... ng sounds like a catch 22...maybe someone more articulate than myself can explain it better...🙂

No checkbaiter,

You explained yourself just fine and although I have seen the Exorcist a great many times and think it is a great movie, it did not have the same effect on me. Although I don't agree with your conclusions from it (and I don't think you are nuts) I can understand how you came upon them.

I think oilman, dj2becker, and the like are nuts. But then again I often wonder if I am even nuttier for attempting to engage in any rationale conversation with them? I mean what is the title of this thread: You must be born again. Or what? I honestly do not know what motivates some to carry on these insipid conversations over and over again. At the same time I don't know what inspires me to participate in them. I think just to prove my point of my favorite quote "the world makes sense only when you force it to" I just come into the Spirituality forum and sure as sunshine I can find some whacky thread like this one.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I see your point and it is rational. I can only tell you how I came to Jesus, then maybe you can glean something from it. I came to the conclusion, that life made no sense. What is the average life, 70 years? Then a hole in the ground. Now some people may think that many good things can come out of that. That is, life without God. But as Solomon declared ...[text shortened]... ng sounds like a catch 22...maybe someone more articulate than myself can explain it better...🙂

first off, i enjoyed this post tremendously more than the ones where you mimic a copy and paste robot. i will return to give you more feedback when i am not so strapped for time.

Originally posted by Joe Fist
No checkbaiter,

You explained yourself just fine and although I have seen the Exorcist a great many times and think it is a great movie, it did not have the same effect on me. Although I don't agree with your conclusions from it (and I don't think you are nuts) I can understand how you came upon them.

I think oilman, dj2becker, and the like are nut ...[text shortened]... me into the Spirituality forum and sure as sunshine I can find some whacky thread like this one.

LOL...I can watch that movie now and have watched it along with many other similiar movies...Now that I have a little understanding of how the spirit world works, it is laughable.
I understand your thoughts on some of these Christians...but in their defense, perhaps they are "young" Christians, zealous.
I have been to many a church, and listened as the Pastor made a mockery of the bible...though not intentionally. He taught as he has been taught.
And I'm sorry to say that many Christians "check their brain in at the door" instead of their hats.
The bible is awesome. I say that because in spite of the fact that many say it is full of contradictions, I find that the more closely I look at it, the more precise it becomes. It can be mind boggling...
Without getting into detail...here are some of the things I have learned...
There is no "hell" yet...and even when it is created, those cast in burn up and cease to exist.
Jesus and God are not one and the same...Jesus was created for a time and a purpose.
When Christians or anyone dies , they do not go to heaven or hell , they cease to exist...until Jesus returns.
There are many other things that go against Traditional Christian doctrine...but the bible for the most part is not taught accurately...
Now don't get me wrong, let input a disclaimer here...I do not have all the answers either...only what 30 years of study have produced,by the grace of God....

Originally posted by checkbaiter
LOL...I can watch that movie now and have watched it along with many other similiar movies...Now that I have a little understanding of how the spirit world works, it is laughable.
I understand your thoughts on some of these Christians...but in their defense, perhaps they are "young" Christians, zealous.
I have been to many a church, and listened as t ...[text shortened]... have all the answers either...only what 30 years of study have produced,by the grace of God....

Well I do agree with you on some points and to be quite honest, I have no desire to prove you wrong on the ones I disagree with:

I understand your thoughts on some of these Christians...but in their defense, perhaps they are "young" Christians, zealous.

That may be so but, in the non-Christian defense, I think many of us find these "young Christians" to be obnoxious. I have posted here and read here for quite sometime now and I think I have rarely came across the non-Christian setting up their soapbox and starting threads attacking Christians unless provoked.

And I'm sorry to say that many Christians "check their brain in at the door" instead of their hats.

No arguement there and sure the same can be said about non-Christians but again usually the nons are provoked.

The bible is awesome. I say that because in spite of the fact that many say it is full of contradictions, I find that the more closely I look at it, the more precise it becomes. It can be mind boggling...

Sure and your approach to this subject matter, at least for me, is not offensive. Dj2becker's used to be slightly offensive but now it is just laughable. Halitose and I had a long conversation about his beliefs and I think we ended up parting ways with mutual respect without really changing each other's opinions but more so trying to get a better understanding.

I won't question in anyway what you have learned from the Bible because again, I can't. After all it was you learned. Most sane people, like yourself, are not interested in trying to tear down what another person believes in but you get people like the author of this thread who are incapable of any other point of view except their own. I hope you understand where I am coming from....

With respect,

Fist

Originally posted by Joe Fist
Well I do agree with you on some points and to be quite honest, I have no desire to prove you wrong on the ones I disagree with:

[b]I understand your thoughts on some of these Christians...but in their defense, perhaps they are "young" Christians, zealous.

That may be so but, in the non-Christian defense, I think many of us find these "young Ch ...[text shortened]... iew except their own. I hope you understand where I am coming from....

With respect,

Fist[/b]

Jesus said that His people would be known by their fruits.

The fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

BTW...I have noticed some of these from Halitose.

As for me, I continue to "let God work in me" to develop more fruit in my life. Biblically, this is what attracts people.
Jesus did not come to condemn, but even Jesus had a "Righteous
anger", like when He overturned the tables, etc.
And at times we are to "confront" each other when we are out of line.(sinning)...but we are to be respectful of all people...after all, I can't change anyone, only God can...I do my best not to tear down someones religion or beliefs, but I slip from time to time...

Peace...CB

young, Originally posted by Joe Fist
Well I do agree with you on some points and to be quite honest, I have no desire to prove you wrong on the ones I disagree with:

[b]I understand your thoughts on some of these Christians...but in their defense, perhaps they are "young" Christians, zealous.

That may be so but, in the non-Christian defense, I think many of us find these "y ...[text shortened]... iew except their own. I hope you understand where I am coming from....

With respect,

Fist[/b]

I am for the life of me trying to find the spot where I have attacked anyone and their right to believe what they want ... It is their choice to choose. However I do feel compelled to try and show people the way so they do not lose in the end. I too do not wnt to offend, however, that might not be avoidable. I am not a young, zealous Christian as you might suppose, being in my last year of college for my Doctorite with my Thesis on Religion vs Relationship. I also have 20 years as a Christian under my belt and have seen many things that would change even the true blue skeptic. There is a alot of divission in the body of Christ and it is truely sad because non- beliievers have a field day with it ( and I guess it is only right, it is their nature ). And I or any other Christian in a humble state would say honestly that we do not have all the answers. But the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing and short of recieving Jesus into your life, there is NO other way.
And as far as checking my brain at the door,... That is the part that you do not get ..... It is not about our brain, it is about our spirit and that is the major difference between a believer and a non-believer. We are not led by our mind, will, and emotions but by faith, hope, and love.
Saying all this I need to say there is not too many people that I would not associate with on this site and we would get along just fine, but as you have your beliefs , I have mine. And all I am trying to do is call you in to the Ark so to speak.

Originally posted by oilman
I am for the life of me trying to find the spot where I have attacked anyone and their right to believe what they want ... It is their choice to choose. However I do feel compelled to try and show people the way so they do not lose in the end. I too do not wnt to offend, however, that might not be avoidable. I am not a young, zealous Christian as you might su ...[text shortened]... ave your beliefs , I have mine. And all I am trying to do is call you in to the Ark so to speak.

If you feel compelled to try and show people the way, perhaps you ought to do so with good arguments, rather than testimonials.

Anyway, I always like meeting fellow academics. At which university are you pursuing your doctorate? From your thesis title I imagine you are either studying theology or some social science. Is this correct? Also, I'd be interested in reading the abstract of your thesis, do you have it available?

Cheers,

Originally posted by bbarr
If you feel compelled to try and show people the way, perhaps you ought to do so with good arguments, rather than testimonials.

Anyway, I always like meeting fellow academics. At which university are you pursuing your doctorate? From your thesis title I imagine you are either studying theology or some social science. Is this correct? Also, I'd be interested in reading the abstract of your thesis, do you have it available?

Cheers,

Ha ha ha .... Bbarr strikes again.

Are you undercover on the Spirituality Forum, Bbarr ?

Originally posted by oilman
I am for the life of me trying to find the spot where I have attacked anyone and their right to believe what they want ... It is their choice to choose. However I do feel compelled to try and show people the way so they do not lose in the end. I too do not wnt to offend, however, that might not be avoidable. I am not a young, zealous Christian as you might su ...[text shortened]... ave your beliefs , I have mine. And all I am trying to do is call you in to the Ark so to speak.

I am for the life of me trying to find the spot where I have attacked anyone and their right to believe what they want ... It is their choice to choose.

The title of this thread to start. “You must be born again”? Or what? You see the Muslim write threads that say “You must be Muslim” or do you see the Agnostic write “You must be Agnostic”?

However I do feel compelled to try and show people the way so they do not lose in the end. I too do not want to offend, however, that might not be avoidable.

Show people what way? “Your way?” I know you will argue that it isn’t “your way” but “the way” but let’s face it, it is YOUR way and YOUR interpretation of Christianity. The very nature of your obsession of doing this while casting aside all other spiritual possibilities is offensive.

I am not a young, zealous Christian as you might suppose, being in my last year of college for my Doctorite with my Thesis on Religion vs Relationship. I also have 20 years as a Christian under my belt and have seen many things that would change even the true blue skeptic.

Well if you had followed this thread it was checkbaiter that gave you that label although I am inclined to agree with it. Am I supposed to be impressed with your credentials? Okay here are mine: I am a junior college dropout, IT professional with 12 years of Catholic school under my belt. I have also seen things in the 36 years of my life that would change the most faithful Christian into an Agnostic. The difference between you and I is that I could careless if I convert you.

There is a alot of division in the body of Christ and it is truely sad because non-believers have a field day with it ( and I guess it is only right, it is their nature ). And I or any other Christian in a humble state would say honestly that we do not have all the answers. But the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing and short of receiving Jesus into your life, there is NO other way.

Well perhaps this is your attempt to dazzle me with your doctorate but you created this thread and not a non-Christian. You instigate the “field day” with your accusations of how the rest of the non-Christian society needs to live. You are right about not having all the answers and I would guess you don’t have any.

And as far as checking my brain at the door,... That is the part that you do not get ..... It is not about our brain, it is about our spirit and that is the major difference between a believer and a non-believer. We are not led by our mind, will, and emotions but by faith, hope, and love.

Well again if you really read this, that was checkbaiter who made the remark about your brain but again I agree with him. Please spare me on what you think “you get”. How arrogant and smug are you that you have any more insight to the afterworld than a newt does? How do you know the non-Christian is not led by what you speak of? Again another blanket, unsupported statement flaunting that waste of an education you have.

Saying all this I need to say there is not too many people that I would not associate with on this site and we would get along just fine, but as you have your beliefs , I have mine. And all I am trying to do is call you in to the Ark so to speak.

Likewise but perhaps you should learn to be more cordial and listen to what the non-Christian has to say. We have been plagued over and over again with what you “young, zealous Christians” have said.

Originally posted by bbarr
If you feel compelled to try and show people the way, perhaps you ought to do so with good arguments, rather than testimonials.

Anyway, I always like meeting fellow academics. At which university are you pursuing your doctorate? From your thesis title I imagine you are either studying theology or some social science. Is this correct? Also, I'd be interested in reading the abstract of your thesis, do you have it available?

Cheers,

Given that oilman cannot spell doctorate correctly, I'm assuming that he attends one of those fly-by-night correspondence PhD programs.