Zen

-Removed-

Agreed!

Originally posted by FMF
Christians just tell themselves that they will never die. Problem solved. 😉

Actually it was Jesus who told us that.

Originally posted by josephw
Actually it was Jesus who told us that.

Yes I am well aware of the story that Christians base their religion on.

Originally posted by josephw
Well, it's good to see you've been paying attention? 😉

Are you disappointed? Do you feel I'm obligated, or am I free to change my mind? 🙂

We addicts know better than to go by such declarations.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"You just have to die with JC in your heart, or some version of this?"

No. You have to "live with JC in your heart".

"Why do you always have to wait for death in Christianity?"

Where did you get that idea? Eternal life is a gift. Once received one never dies.[/b]

And so the scam continues....

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"You just have to die with JC in your heart, or some version of this?"

No. You have to "live with JC in your heart".

"Why do you always have to wait for death in Christianity?"

Where did you get that idea? Eternal life is a gift. Once received one never dies.[/b]

I got the idea from Christians.
I have not heard of Christian thought (except maybe the Gnostics) embrace eternity while alive. We goto heaven ( WHEN DEAD ) and get judged and either stay in heaven or goto hell. Is this not Christianity 101?

Originally posted by FMF
Christians just tell themselves that they will never die. Problem solved. 😉

And yet even JC had to be "resurrected"

Originally posted by FMF
Yes I am well aware of the story that Christians base their religion on.

Of course you are. But you are unaware of the truth of it.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
And yet even JC had to be "resurrected"

If Jesus hadn't been resurrected, then neither will anyone else.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I got the idea from Christians.

The "idea" didn't originate with Christians.

It's God's idea.

Originally posted by sonhouse
And so the scam continues....

So you say.

Originally posted by josephw
Of course you are. But you are unaware of the truth of it.

I was taken in by it for the better part of three decades, josephw, and held fast to the supposed truth of it all with great sincerity during that time. But I ended up liberated from - what I came to realize were - its numbing and curiosity-truncating psychological seductions.

Those Christian years were very nice - and certainly very positive - in many ways, but the religion's seeming vitalization - I gradually came to realize - owed more to my own growing spiritual core functioning with increasing acuteness and awareness, rather than to ancient mythology, elaborate doctrines, and the extraordinarily convoluted Christian cult of personality that grew out of it.

And it's been empowering to have gradually shaken myself free from its intellectual and spiritual clutches.

To be frank, in retrospect, it does seem like a very restricted and stylized prism through which to view our human condition, and I see evidence of those restrictions and seductions in the demeanour and intellectual behaviour of many of the Christians on this forum day after day.

I may be accused of many things, josephw, [the insufferable arrogance in how I am testifying in this way, for one, perhaps!], but being "unaware" of what being a Christian means and entails, is certainly not one of them. It wasn't as if I tried it out for just a few years.

Because of my experience, I am of course able to empathize with you when you extol the virtues and benefits of your faith, even if I no longer share it. 🙂

Originally posted by josephw
Has it been that long? 🙂

I haven't gone anywhere, and I've kept up with the reading. I guess I just got bored with myself! After all, I've been wrangling with you guys for ten years now. How am I supposed to simply quit a bad habit overnight? 😉

I guess I just got bored with myself! After all, I've been wrangling with you guys for ten years now.

If it took you a month, imagine how we feel!

Originally posted by josephw
If Jesus hadn't been resurrected, then neither will anyone else.

The point I'm making is Christians think you have to wait to die.

(please keep up)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
So it has come back to this again ....

Zen is seen as the refinement of Buddhist "thought".
It was born with the Buddha in India, travelled via China, and was sharpened into a hammer in Japan.
Or so it is simplified,by some like me, however: there is nothing more complex.

Ideas?

Do you have a couple of koans which were your favorite or from which you got something ?
I'd like to know if you did ?