Originally posted by sonshipA 'koan' in itself is not something you are meant to get anything out of, other than as a tool to exhaust the rational/logical mind and bring about enlightenment.
Do you have a couple of koans which were your favorite or from which you got something ?
I'd like to know if you did ?
The ones most people know are 'if a tree falls in a forest does it make a noise' or 'what is the sound of one hand clapping.' Such riddles are meant to be 'illogical tools,' nothing more.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeThey show the limitations of the logical thoughts.
A 'koan' in itself is not something you are meant to get anything out of, other than as a tool to exhaust the rational/logical mind and bring about enlightenment.
The ones most people know are 'if a tree falls in a forest does it make a noise' or 'what is the sound of one hand clapping.' Such riddles are meant to be 'illogical tools,' nothing more.
What would be the next step for the Zen practitioner after she is convinced there are limitations to what the logical mind can do ?
It has been awhile.
Originally posted by sonshipWell, I speak as someone who has not personally achieved enlightenment. 🙂
They show the limitations of the logical thoughts.
What would be the next step for the Zen practitioner after she is convinced there are limitations to what the logical mind can do ?
It has been awhile.
The theory however, in Zen, is that it's only when you are free from logical thought that the mind can see things as they really are and achieve enlightenment
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI recall Allen Watts writing that the mind was like a turbulent stream that had to be stilled to see clearly.
Well, I speak as someone who has not personally achieved enlightenment. 🙂
The theory however, in Zen, is that it's only when you are free from logical thought that the mind can see things as they really are and achieve enlightenment
Are you serious about having achieved enlightenment ?
Or was this just humor?
Originally posted by sonshipYes, I like the turbulent stream analogy.
I recall Allen Watts writing that the mind was like a turbulent stream that had to be stilled to see clearly.
Are you serious about having achieved enlightenment ?
Or was this just humor?
I think you misread my last post. I said I 'had not' personally achieved enlightenment.
Zen meditation is comparable (to some extent) I imagine to deep prayer where one clears one mind of any distractions that get in the way of the prime objective.
Originally posted by sonshipI just have the one,very boring koan, "what is Buddhism?" but I've repeated internally so many times it's just basically turned into a big kinda question mark waiting for it's partner.
Do you have a couple of koans which were your favorite or from which you got something ?
I'd like to know if you did ?
I'm not big on koans, then again I've never studied under a master.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeDesigned to quieten the mind while keeping it alert.
A 'koan' in itself is not something you are meant to get anything out of, other than as a tool to exhaust the rational/logical mind and bring about enlightenment.
The ones most people know are 'if a tree falls in a forest does it make a noise' or 'what is the sound of one hand clapping.' Such riddles are meant to be 'illogical tools,' nothing more.
The "answer" to a koan is for the student himself. it would make no sense to any other than the master
Originally posted by sonshipThey try to skip logical thought because it's not the way to understanding
They show the limitations of the logical thoughts.
What would be the next step for the Zen practitioner after she is convinced there are limitations to what the logical mind can do ?
It has been awhile.