Zen

Originally posted by sonship
Do you have a couple of koans which were your favorite or from which you got something ?
I'd like to know if you did ?

A 'koan' in itself is not something you are meant to get anything out of, other than as a tool to exhaust the rational/logical mind and bring about enlightenment.

The ones most people know are 'if a tree falls in a forest does it make a noise' or 'what is the sound of one hand clapping.' Such riddles are meant to be 'illogical tools,' nothing more.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
A 'koan' in itself is not something you are meant to get anything out of, other than as a tool to exhaust the rational/logical mind and bring about enlightenment.

The ones most people know are 'if a tree falls in a forest does it make a noise' or 'what is the sound of one hand clapping.' Such riddles are meant to be 'illogical tools,' nothing more.

They show the limitations of the logical thoughts.

What would be the next step for the Zen practitioner after she is convinced there are limitations to what the logical mind can do ?

It has been awhile.

Originally posted by sonship
They show the limitations of the logical thoughts.

What would be the next step for the Zen practitioner after she is convinced there are limitations to what the logical mind can do ?

It has been awhile.

Well, I speak as someone who has not personally achieved enlightenment. 🙂

The theory however, in Zen, is that it's only when you are free from logical thought that the mind can see things as they really are and achieve enlightenment

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Well, I speak as someone who has not personally achieved enlightenment. 🙂

The theory however, in Zen, is that it's only when you are free from logical thought that the mind can see things as they really are and achieve enlightenment

I recall Allen Watts writing that the mind was like a turbulent stream that had to be stilled to see clearly.

Are you serious about having achieved enlightenment ?
Or was this just humor?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
The ones most people know are 'if a tree falls in a forest does it make a noise'.

Here is my favourite version of this one:
"If a man speaks in a forest, and his wife is not there to hear him, is he still wrong?"

Originally posted by sonship
I recall Allen Watts writing that the mind was like a turbulent stream that had to be stilled to see clearly.

Are you serious about having achieved enlightenment ?
Or was this just humor?

Yes, I like the turbulent stream analogy.

I think you misread my last post. I said I 'had not' personally achieved enlightenment.

Zen meditation is comparable (to some extent) I imagine to deep prayer where one clears one mind of any distractions that get in the way of the prime objective.

Originally posted by CalJust
Here is my favourite version of this one:
"If a man speaks in a forest, and his wife is not there to hear him, is he still wrong?"

🙂

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
🙂

I am a Zen master, ask me anything.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am a Zen master, ask me anything.

Do you hold to the view or belief that my not being a member of your religious organisation in any way. preclude me from accessing eternal life?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am a Zen master, ask me anything.

If 'you' fell over in a forest, would God chuckle?

Originally posted by josephw
If Jesus hadn't been resurrected, then neither will anyone else.

You sure?

Originally posted by josephw
The "idea" didn't originate with Christians.

It's God's idea.

Yeah well god wasn't present all those times so his followers had to tell me

Originally posted by sonship
Do you have a couple of koans which were your favorite or from which you got something ?
I'd like to know if you did ?

I just have the one,very boring koan, "what is Buddhism?" but I've repeated internally so many times it's just basically turned into a big kinda question mark waiting for it's partner.
I'm not big on koans, then again I've never studied under a master.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
A 'koan' in itself is not something you are meant to get anything out of, other than as a tool to exhaust the rational/logical mind and bring about enlightenment.

The ones most people know are 'if a tree falls in a forest does it make a noise' or 'what is the sound of one hand clapping.' Such riddles are meant to be 'illogical tools,' nothing more.

Designed to quieten the mind while keeping it alert.
The "answer" to a koan is for the student himself. it would make no sense to any other than the master

Originally posted by sonship
They show the limitations of the logical thoughts.

What would be the next step for the Zen practitioner after she is convinced there are limitations to what the logical mind can do ?

It has been awhile.

They try to skip logical thought because it's not the way to understanding