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  1. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    19 Jan '12 13:291 edit
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    A lot of good points have already been made, but I will add that I don't think soccer is as unpopular in the US as conventional wisdom suggests. While it's certainly not as popular as the big four, it still comprises a small part if US culture - "soccer moms" anyone? They're hawt.
    Soccer is a big part of our culture, but that it playing the game, not watching it.

    We watch the world cup. Other than that, soccer's TV ratings are miniscule. We have a league, but we just don't care about it.

    Think about it. When was the last time you heard a soccer game on the radio or picked up the back page and saw a blaring headline about D.C. United's match against Real Salt Lake?
  2. Joined
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    19 Jan '12 14:30
    Originally posted by sh76
    Soccer is a big part of our culture, but that it playing the game, not watching it.

    We watch the world cup. Other than that, soccer's TV ratings are miniscule. We have a league, but we just don't care about it.

    Think about it. When was the last time you heard a soccer game on the radio or picked up the back page and saw a blaring headline about D.C. United's match against Real Salt Lake?
    Not true. For example, walk into any Mexican owned business in the US and it will be on, gauranteed!! 😛
  3. Joined
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    19 Jan '12 16:07
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Riiiight.. and Google Spud Webb. That's my proof that basketball players vary so widely. No, wait. He's one of the smallest professional players to have ever played the game. That would be totally dishonest of me to use as an example.

    The typical "small" guys in rugby tend to be about 175 pounds or so, and the heavy guys mid 200's - perhaps the ...[text shortened]... posting....

    Oops, did you just get burned by American ignorance? Sorry about that.
    lol

    http://knowtheplayers.com/index.php

    I can find plenty of players 120kg +
    The heaviest being 135kg, every team will have a prop, lock and hooker around the 120kg mark if they can find them. Unlike football players the heavy rugby players have to be actual athletes, although i'll admit to that changing in football, you don't see as many big guys there for the sack of being big anymore. Every rugby player in on the field for the entire game, they can be substituted but it's not like a basketball substitution were they can return later in the game. A 120kg+ guy constantly running up and down the field and then having the strength to compete in a scrum, that's impressive.

    Stringer might be the lightest rugby player but not by much, as you'll see on that site if you flick through the random stats, stats of every player who plays rugby at an international level. There's quite a few in the 70-80kg range. Scrumhalf and to a lesser extent fly-half are positions designed to have the smaller more agile guys.

    You have to take into consideration how important the point is that rugby players stay on the field for the entire game, whatever is going on, while the bigger guys in football only come in for a few defensive plays. Guys that are probably a large reason why the average football career is only 3 years... 3 years for a professional sportsman, that's pathetic. Rugby players play more, do more work during a game and still stick around much longer than your average NFLer. Not to mention 'roster' size in rugby teams being smaller.

    Don't get me wrong i love watching football but don't call the heavier players athletes or brag about how versatile the sport is because of them compared to rugby, professional bear hugers aren't something to be proud of.
  4. Joined
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    19 Jan '12 16:501 edit
    Originally posted by Trev33
    lol

    http://knowtheplayers.com/index.php

    I can find plenty of players 120kg +
    The heaviest being 135kg, every team will have a prop, lock and hooker around the 120kg mark if they can find them. Unlike football players the heavy rugby players have to be actual athletes, although i'll admit to that changing in football, you don't see as many big guys th of them compared to rugby, professional bear hugers aren't something to be proud of.
    "The heaviest being 135kg"

    A cryptic way of admitting there are ZERO players who even touch the 300 pound mark. We're speaking specifically about the diverse make up of various skill sets and athletic builds. Now that you've been owned in the face, you're spinning by saying the heavier players are "not athletes." Absolute nonsense. Why then isn't every 300+ pound guy making millions in the NFL? Because only a select few have the strength, endurance, speed and skill to play those positions. On Stringer, you picked the smallest guy of all and said there are many other little guys "like him." That was dishonest.

    I haven't knocked rugby at all and I respect the sport. Nothing you have told me is anything I didn't already know.

    But the next time you want to make a snide remark about an American you should first of all be right, and then only start with an American who can't run circles around you. If you can find one.
  5. Joined
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    19 Jan '12 18:12
    Originally posted by Trev33
    lol
    Stringer might be the lightest rugby player but not by much, as you'll see on that site if you flick through the random stats, stats of every player who plays rugby at an international level. There's quite a few in the 70-80kg range. Scrumhalf and to a lesser extent fly-half are positions designed to have the smaller more agile guys.

    You have to take ...[text shortened]... nger than your average NFLer. Not to mention 'roster' size in rugby teams being smaller.
    3 years!!!!wow, i didnt know that. is that due to physical damage? what about quarterbacks, im sure back in the 90's when i watched a bit of football there were some really old quarter backs, dan marino? joe montana? or did they just look old?

    another question - when playing the sport isnt it really boring playing defence when all you do all day is block, it must get tedious.
  6. Joined
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    19 Jan '12 19:181 edit
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    "The heaviest being 135kg"

    A cryptic way of admitting there are ZERO players who even touch the 300 pound mark. We're speaking specifically about the diverse make up of various skill sets and athletic builds. Now that you've been owned in the face, you're spinning by saying the heavier players are "not athletes." Absolute nonsense. Why then isn' only start with an American who can't run circles around you. If you can find one.
    135gk is 298 pounds, pretty fecken close to your 300. Skill sets? What skill do the heavy guys have in football other than beer hugs? A 298 pound guy in rugby has to do everything the other guys are doing, then complete in a scrum against 6 other guys of a similar build. Make the NFL fat guys look like pansies.

    That wasn't dishonest, that was fact... the next lightest guy being 1kg heavier than Stringer, the 300 pound guys do turds larger than that. Every team will have guys with an at least 40kg difference, all athletic professional sportsman.

    No doubt rugby positions have differing body types and skill sets, but nowhere near to the extreme of American football

    Ok i'll give you differing body types... not 'no where near' the extreme of American football, that's ridiculous. If rugby had walk on walk off scrums do doubt they'd be heavier but it would completely ruin the sport.

    Different skill sets but nowhere near to the extreme of American football... the fact that you don't see how arrogant and ignorant that statement is is scary and a good part of the reason why Americans are hated worldwide, the 'we're better than everyone else' mentality. Complete crap, skill sets? Jesus, go and play in a rugby match with people than know what they're doing, play in each position and if you're brain still functions by the end of it i'll allow you to come on here to apologize.

    Just because you have individual guys in football doing different jobs doesn't mean there's more 'skill sets' in football and you are not in a position to compare the two until you have played both. Each individual player has to be in tune with the game plan, with every other team mate and they require knowledge of each position... skill sets, jesus.

    Please, there's no point in arguing it until you actually have a clue what you're talking about, i've played both sports, physically and mentally football is easier.
  7. Joined
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    19 Jan '12 19:26
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    3 years!!!!wow, i didnt know that. is that due to physical damage? what about quarterbacks, im sure back in the 90's when i watched a bit of football there were some really old quarter backs, dan marino? joe montana? or did they just look old?

    another question - when playing the sport isnt it really boring playing defence when all you do all day is block, it must get tedious.
    QBs are a protected species. I'm sure the phyical side comes into it... these 300+ pound guys not being able to cut it season after season because they're not fit enough or whatever. I'm sure a lot has to do with the salary cap, guys coming out of college will play for less than people who have been around for a few years, the older guys get cut and can't find a new team because there's plenty of fatties just out of college who are able to play professional beer hug.
  8. Joined
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    20 Jan '12 02:093 edits
    Originally posted by Trev33
    135gk is 298 pounds, pretty fecken close to your 300. Skill sets? What skill do the heavy guys have in football other than beer hugs? A 298 pound guy in rugby has to do everything the other guys are doing, then complete in a scrum against 6 other guys of a similar build. Make the NFL fat guys look like pansies.

    That wasn't dishonest, that was fact... the about, i've played both sports, physically and mentally football is easier.
    "135gk is 298 pounds, pretty fecken close to your 300.

    And thank you very much for pointing out THE biggest guy in rugby you can find is still under 300, while the 49ers team (ONE team) has like twelve guys who weigh over 300. But hey, the single biggest guy in all of rugby weighs almost 300 so that's something, right?

    "A 298 pound guy in rugby has to do everything the other guys are doing, then complete in a scrum against 6 other guys of a similar build. Make the NFL fat guys look like pansies."

    And by "A" 298 pound guy you mean the ONLY 298 pound guy in all of rugby, right? FAT? I assure you the 300+ club gets their weight mostly from muscle. Here is 330 pound Isaac Sopoaga.

    http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/ninerinsider/2008/02/27/Isaac-DVD-Cover-.jpg

    http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2011/12/04/ba-49ers05_0504679225.jpg

    I would PAY to see some rugby player call him a pansy.

    That wasn't dishonest, that was fact... the next lightest guy being 1kg heavier than Stringer

    The next lightest guy in ALL of professional rugby, sure but who cares?

    "the 300 pound guys do turds larger than that."

    Funny how said "300 pound guys" (plural) when the single biggest guy you could find doesn't even weigh that much.

    "Different skill sets but nowhere near to the extreme of American football... the fact that you don't see how arrogant and ignorant that statement is is scary and a good part of the reason why Americans are hated worldwide, the 'we're better than everyone else' mentality."

    It's not that it's arrogant it's that you're an insecure little pu**y. Football combines many different positions (jobs) that are completely dissimilar to a greater extent than all other sports. The kicker who's only job it is to kick the ball through the uprights. The punter who kicks the ball away onto the field to create the best field position possible. The defensive linemen who's job it is go after the quarter back and plug holes for the running back, and the offensive linemen who oppose them. The fast, quick wide receivers who must get separation from the corners and have the hands to catch deep thrown passes in stride. The quarterback and there's more, but you get the point.

    I mentioned technical reasons why football is my favorite sport, which is nothing more than personal preference. I also mentioned I hate baseball, largely considered the most American sport of all.

    Why would I care why you hate Americans? From what you've shown you're disingenuous, you're ignorant, you're a frail little pu**y who gets all but hurt over nothing, and you're a bigot. I'm as interested in why you hate Americans as I am why some redneck on Jerry Springer hates black people. Not in the slightest.

    PS: I noticed you edited out the part where you tried to claim being a lineman isn't a position that requires skill. I'm glad you realized how stupid a comment it was and edited it out, but too bad you can't recognize the rest of your post is as idiotic. And no, I'm not buying your load of BS about having played both sports.
  9. Joined
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    20 Jan '12 02:32
    PS: I noticed you edited out the part where you tried to claim being a lineman isn't a position that requires skill. [/b]
    I'll get back to the rest of your post when/if i can be bothered, i seem to have struck a nerve lol

    But this is just outright lies, i didn't mention once in my post anything about a lineman, if there is an edit it was to correct a spelling error. I think you're losing the plot dude.

    BTW i didn't say i hated Americans, i gave you the reasons why the world hates Americans... or at least generally on perception. BTW they all think you're stupid as well... something you're not doing much to disprove here.
  10. Joined
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    20 Jan '12 02:381 edit
    Originally posted by Trev33
    QBs are a protected species. I'm sure the phyical side comes into it... these 300+ pound guys not being able to cut it season after season because they're not fit enough or whatever. I'm sure a lot has to do with the salary cap, guys coming out of college will play for less than people who have been around for a few years, the older guys get cut and can't fin ...[text shortened]... e there's plenty of fatties just out of college who are able to play professional beer hug.
    My God, ignorance abound.

    "these 300+ pound guys not being able to cut it season after season because they're not fit enough or whatever."

    Size has nothing to do with it. Even the average career span of a kicker is very, very short. Football is extremely competitive all but the the most producing players get cut from the team very quickly. The injury rates in football are also extraordinarily high. It's not because 300 pound guys aren't "fit enough." Football teams specifically go after 300 pound guys for certain positions.

    "I'm sure a lot has to do with the salary cap, guys coming out of college will play for less than people who have been around for a few years"

    Actually there are guys coming out of college getting contracts worth tens of millions of dollars, and there are veterans making the league minimum. If a player is producing, he will have a job in the NFL somewhere.

    "the older guys get cut and can't find a new team because there's plenty of fatties just out of college who are able to play professional beer hug.

    What an idiotic remark. Yes, sure you played football.
  11. Joined
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    20 Jan '12 02:58
    Originally posted by Trev33
    I'll get back to the rest of your post when/if i can be bothered, i seem to have struck a nerve lol

    But this is just outright lies, i didn't mention once in my post anything about a lineman, if there is an edit it was to correct a spelling error. I think you're losing the plot dude.

    BTW i didn't say i hated Americans, i gave you the reasons why the worl ...[text shortened]... they all think you're stupid as well... something you're not doing much to disprove here.
    Actually I found the comment that I saw earlier, "What skill do the heavy guys have in football other than beer hugs?"

    Which refers to linemen (the big guys), and you would have known that if you played. You mean "bear hug" and it's illegal in football, which of course you would know if you really had played.

    Why isn't every 300 pound guy making millions in the NFL? If it's not a skill set, why are some linemen so much better than others with the same athletic build?

    "BTW i didn't say i hated Americans, i gave you the reasons why the world hates Americans... or at least generally on perception. BTW they all think you're stupid as well... something you're not doing much to disprove here."

    You didn't have to. You took civil conversation about a topic as mundane as sports and used it to inject your anti-American rhetoric. As an American I recognize that "the world" is not a homogenous entity and it's not something that you or anyone can speak for. "They all" don't think any one thing.

    But in a way I can understand why you need to harp on that. As I mentioned early you're somewhat of a pu**y, which is why you try to reference others for self validation.
  12. Joined
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    20 Jan '12 03:21
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    My God, ignorance abound.

    [b]"these 300+ pound guys not being able to cut it season after season because they're not fit enough or whatever."


    Size has nothing to do with it. Even the average career span of a kicker is very, very short. Football is extremely competitive all but the the most producing players get cut from the team very qui ...[text shortened]... rofessional beer hug.[/b]

    What an idiotic remark. Yes, sure you played football.[/b]
    TBH i have no idea why the average NFL career is only 3 years, i'm sure salary cap does have a lot to do with it but still, 3 years? That's nothing.

    Think we can have a dissuasion on this without the mad slinging? lol

    I wonder if college has anything to do with it... how many players get drafted each year? Granted a lot of the first round picks will be earning the big bucks but certainly not the majority.

    Injuries? The regular season lasts 17 weeks, they play maybe 4 preseason games... the injury list shouldn't be that high. I mean you see it all season long players being out for the season. More so than any other sport i know. Maybe they're spending too much time in the gym... the fitter you are the more prone to injury you become, just look at tennis now and compare it to 30 years ago, players are getting injured much more often now.

    I did play football... indoor flag during the winter and full kitted up outdoors in the 'summer', there was rarely enough of us to play a full numbered game but we managed. This was when i was a teenager so as you can tell i'm totally in a position to comment on the rigors of professional football lol
  13. Joined
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    20 Jan '12 03:531 edit
    Originally posted by Trev33
    TBH i have no idea why the average NFL career is only 3 years, i'm sure salary cap does have a lot to do with it but still, 3 years? That's nothing.

    Think we can have a dissuasion on this without the mad slinging? lol

    I wonder if college has anything to do with it... how many players get drafted each year? Granted a lot of the first round picks will be can tell i'm totally in a position to comment on the rigors of professional football lol
    I don't think the salary cap has anything to do with the short span of players. It's that it's very competitive. If your salary is so high that the cap matters, someone will want you.

    "Think we can have a dissuasion on this without the mad slinging?"

    Sure, so long as you don't insult my nationality.


    I wonder if college has anything to do with it... how many players get drafted each year? Granted a lot of the first round picks will be earning the big bucks but certainly not the majority.


    I don't know the exact number, but it's a ton of players and not all of them will make the team. The point was salary has nothing to do with being a rookie or veteran. You get paid based on your playing ability. That's indirectly true for college players, because if you're dominant in your position you'll end up being an early draft pick.

    Injuries? The regular season lasts 17 weeks, they play maybe 4 preseason games... the injury list shouldn't be that high.

    Many studies have shown football to be THE most brutal of sports, and all studies show it's one of the top. Rugby fans often bock at football players wearing pads, but they have to.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_American_football_and_rugby_union
    In both games it is permitted to bring down the player in possession of the ball and prevent them making forward progress. In rugby, unlike in American football, the ball is still in play. Players from either team can take possession of the ball. The tackled player must present the ball (release the ball) so that open play can continue.

    Rugby union rules do not allow tackles above the plane of the shoulders. Only the player who has possession of the ball can be tackled. The attacker must also attempt to wrap his or her arms around the player being tackled: merely pushing the player being tackled to ground with a shoulder is illegal. If a maul or ruck is formed, a player may not "ram" into the formation without first binding to the players.

    In American football, tacklers are not required to wrap their arms around the ball carrier before bringing him to the ground; in fact, the ball carrier is often "tackled" by the defender taking a running start and hitting the ball carrier to knock them to the ground. Tackles can also be made by grabbing the ball carrier's jersey and pulling him to the ground (though pulling down a ball carrier from behind by the pads or jersey behind his neck is known as a "horse collar", a move now illegal at all levels of the American game). If a ball carrier is stopped for more than a few seconds, the referee can blow the whistle, declare the player's forward progress stopped, and end the play even though the ball carrier is not actually tackled to the ground.

    In American football, players are allowed to 'block' players without the ball, this is not permitted in rugby union and would be considered 'obstruction', resulting in a penalty.


    Aside from being allowed to "tackle" a guy by drilling him, it's often done at full speed in wide open space. I'd love to have a rugby player watch this video and agree to play in the NFL without pads. Note: in football you do NOT have to have the ball to get hit.

    YouTube
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    20 Jan '12 05:25
    The projected second or third pick in the NFL draft is a 300 pound O lineman... I'm LOLing if you think that you get drafted second or third in the NFL without having teh skillz.
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    20 Jan '12 05:39
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    The projected second or third pick in the NFL draft is a 300 pound O lineman... I'm LOLing if you think that you get drafted second or third in the NFL without having teh skillz.
    He actually thought 300 pound linemen are just big fat guys who bear hug.
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