Appeals to greed

Originally posted by KellyJay
You really don't understand anything about money and responsibility
do you? Compassion isn’t being hindered here, responsibility is being
avoided under the current system by people that have no stake in the
common pot of money except when they feel entitled to it, which I am
saying is wrong. There are people now, you it seems falls into this
cate ...[text shortened]... d say if that is the level of your compassion,
your compassion has a lot to be desired.
Kelly

"There are people now, you it seems falls into this
category, where you demand others give you some of their money
simply because they have more than you, and you claim they must
give you their money because you think that is love?

Did you even read what I posted? I not only don't demand others give me money, I'd gladly give more to help the unfortunate in our society. If our society wasn't so inherently greedy, they'd pay everyone a livable wage and take care of everyone who wasn't able to take care of themselves. What's really pathetic is the likes of you who not only don't want to take care of them, but want to take more away from them when they have nothing. The likes of you are the very example of greed.

"If you can give more to help others why are you waiting for the
government to take your money to do what you know needs done? You to stinking lazy and uncompassionate to help others because it is the right thing to, you want the government to do it for you so you don’t have to be bothered? I’d say if that is the level of your compassion, your compassion has a lot to be desired."

I'm not "waiting for the government to take [my] money". If this society was a society of compassion, it would ensure that all the unfortunate people are taken care of. Instead it's populated by people such as yourself who only think of themselves. The fact that so many of them call themselves "Christian" is pathetic. If you ever wonder why so many hold "Christians" in such low regard, you need only look in the mirror.

That you call the dirt poor "greedy" is one of the most ridiculous assertions that I've ever heard. Do you not understand the definition of "greed"? You have a seriously warped perspective that can only be borne of self-centeredness.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]"There are people now, you it seems falls into this
category, where you demand others give you some of their money
simply because they have more than you, and you claim they must
give you their money because you think that is love?

Did you even read what I posted? I not only don't demand others give me money, I'd gladly give more to help t ...[text shortened]... seriously warped perspective that can only be borne of self-centeredness.[/b]

You are a fine one to talk about how bad everyone else is, you claim
you would be happy if the government would take more of your money
and help the poor. Yet, it seems you will not act on your own, because
of how bad other people are, you rant against me, all Christians in
general, as if that some how excuses you from action you claim should
be done but isn't due to greed.

I don't think you have a clue about money, outside of how everone
else should be handling their money, you it seems are excused from
helping others out, because you see greed in society.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You are a fine one to talk about how bad everyone else is, you claim
you would be happy if the government would take more of your money
and help the poor. Yet, it seems you will not act on your own, because
of how bad other people are, you rant against me, all Christians in
general, as if that some how excuses you from action you claim should
be done b y, you it seems are excused from
helping others out, because you see greed in society.
Kelly

What makes it seem that I "will not act on [my] own" other than your wanting to find a way to justify your greed by attacking me? You have no idea what I do or don't do. FWIW, I give both time and money to helping the poor.

I rant against you because you start a thread about how "greedy" the poor are, when in fact it is you who are driven by greed. You are the one who doesn't have a clue about money. That's why you are a slave to it.

I see "Christians" like yourself and can only shake my head in wonder how much you differ from the examples and teachings of Jesus. You are a "Christian" in name only.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
--Mahatma Gandhi

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
What makes it seem that I "will not act on [my] own" other than your wanting to find a way to justify your greed by attacking me? You have no idea what I do or don't do. FWIW, I give both time and money to helping the poor.

I rant against you because you start a thread about how "greedy" the poor are, when in fact it is you who are driven by greed. Y ...[text shortened]... ike your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
--Mahatma Gandhi

You were the one that said you were okay with them taking more
of your money so the poor would be helped, so why are you not
using it for that cause now? I'm not justifying greed in any measure
that would require I'm taking something from someone one else
or even my paying less, you don't know what I make so again
you are just assuming quite a bit and belittling me for your
assumptions.

My statement is not about punishing anyone, it is about making
everyone get treated the same way, that isn't greed that is a
fundamental statement about fairness. Fairness is a level playing
field that does not change for anyone, which is not the case now.
Kids who grow being given everything are not appreciative what
they have as much as those that work for it. Many in our country
do not care what happens to the “rich” as far as they are concern
the rich are a blight on the country and should be punished,
because obviously they have something they should not have
which is more so something they do not, that is greed.

You rant against me because you have this asinine thought
that you or others deserve what another works for and that
some should be able to draw out of a common money pot
without ever putting into it. You seem to think that the
force of law by taking what one has so it can be given
to another is love, and that is a brain dead stupid thing to
say. That is the cheap costless way of feeling you are meeting
your obligated to help the poor, because you pay taxes, that
has nothing what so ever to do with compassion, love, or
good stewardship of resources, that is more along the lines
of I gave at the office don’t bother me.

I don’t care one wit what you think about my Christianity.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You were the one that said you were okay with them taking more
of your money so the poor would be helped, so why are you not
using it for that cause now? I'm not justifying greed in any measure
that would require I'm taking something from someone one else
or even my paying less, you don't know what I make so again
you are just assuming quite a bit and 8217;t bother me.

I don’t care one wit what you think about my Christianity.
Kelly

"You were the one that said you were okay with them taking more
of your money so the poor would be helped, so why are you not
using it for that cause now?...That is the cheap costless way of feeling you are meeting your obligated to help the poor, because you pay taxes, that has nothing what so ever to do with compassion, love, or
good stewardship of resources, that is more along the lines
of I gave at the office don't bother me."

You have quite the reputation on these forums for being, let's say, less than intelligent. Based on your responses, it's difficult to think otherwise. What part of "I give both time and money to helping the poor" don't you understand?

You constantly say, "It's not fair." The problem is that your conception of "fair" is on the level of a child. I'd explain it to you, but it's quite evident that it would be a pointless exercise. You haven't been able to grasp anything I've told you as of yet no matter how simple the concept.

Whether or not you care one wit what I think about your Christianity, you should really try reading some of the teachings of Jesus. For you the parables of the prodigal son and the workers in the vineyard would be a good place to start, though I shudder to think what you'd make of them. After that you might want to see if you can understand the passage from Luke that rwingett posted on page 2. I know you didn't understand it when he first posted it, but maybe you will if you come to understand the parables above.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]"You were the one that said you were okay with them taking more
of your money so the poor would be helped, so why are you not
using it for that cause now?...That is the cheap costless way of feeling you are meeting your obligated to help the poor, because you pay taxes, that has nothing what so ever to do with compassion, love, or
good stewardshi t posted it, but maybe you will if you come to understand the parables above.

[/b]I understood you said you give both time and money, yet you said
you were okay with the government taking more. So why again are
you holding back? Where is the compassion, or do you think that is
only shown when you let the government do it for you? You are okay
with forcing others to give up their money to do what you seem to
be holding back on, so give, give, and give. You have money your
okay with the government taking why are you hanging on to that, is
it that you have other uses for it?

Yep, I say it isn't fair that we treat one person differently than we
treat another! I think it is unfair we tax one person at a different
rate than another, and another not at all. I think it completely
unfair that a small percentage of the population are required to
pony up and nearly half not at all. Being responsible, isn't being
greedy, doing one's own fair share for the common good of the
community at the level you’re able, is precisely what each of us
should be required to do no matter how small a contribution that is.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I understood you said you give both time and money, yet you said
you were okay with the government taking more. So why again are
you holding back? Where is the compassion, or do you think that is
only shown when you let the government do it for you? You are okay
with forcing others to give up their money to do what you seem to
be holding back on, s what each of us
should be required to do no matter how small a contribution that is.
Kelly[/b]

lol. I have to say that you are amongst the densest people I've come across. Evidently it's pointless to discuss much of anything with you.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
lol. I have to say that you are amongst the densest people I've come across. Evidently it's pointless to discuss much of anything with you.

You have not discussed anything with me, you have only cried that
an equal percentage among people is greedy. Without saying why
some should be made to pay and others not.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You have not discussed anything with me, you have only cried that
an equal percentage among people is greedy. Without saying why
some should be made to pay and others not.
Kelly

Listen, I've tried telling you what's greedy about your position but it has fallen on deaf ears.

Not that it sunk in the first time, but there's a certain percentage of people who live at or BELOW the poverty line. Why tax them when they can't even pay for basic needs? Do you not understand the concept of poverty?

Those who make the most money are in the best position to help the unfortunate. A progessive tax only adds additional percentages to those dollars above certain thresholds. If those who are in the best position to help the unfortunate were compassionate, they wouldn't balk at providing this assistance.

Maybe it'd help if you told me which parts of the above you don't understand instead of repeating your brand of "fairness" like a naive school-boy.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Listen, I've tried telling you what's greedy about your position but it has fallen on deaf ears.

Not that it sunk in the first time, but there's a certain percentage of people who live at or BELOW the poverty line. Why tax them when they can't even pay for basic needs? Do you not understand the concept of poverty?

Those who make the most money are i ...[text shortened]... on't understand instead of repeating your brand of "fairness" like a naive school-boy.

If you are earning an income yes, you should be paying into the
system that is already assisting those below the poverty line, as well
as it does everyone else.

Yes I understand the concept of poverty; I've been poor a time or two
myself. That does not change the fact that if you are pulling out of
the common pot you should still be putting into it when you can. It is
called personal responsibility, and doing your fair share for the
common good of the community. I’d also stop the government from
taxing benefits when someone is qualified for them too, that seems
like nothing but a gimmick to claim they are helping at this amount
but recouping a considerable portion of that benefit back in taxes.
That would mean that the benefits on paper may appear one thing,
but the actual benefit to those in need is actually much less in what
they are really getting.

Those who make the most will always be paying in the most, but it
should be no more or no less than anyone else. If you make 10k a
year and if the tax is 10% it is 1K, if you make 1M you’d pay 100K
in taxes, it will always be more, but it should be the same percentage
throughout your lifetime.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
[b]"People who advocate a flat tax do so out of greed or ignorance. It only serves to put more money in the pockets of those who earn the most and take more money from those who earn the least."

Your statement is the pinnacle of culture of greed!

A flat percentage treats everyone the same way, it also forces
everyone who reaps benifits from the s ...[text shortened]... to contribute to the state,
it favors no one, because it treats everyone the same way.
Kelly[/b]

So Mr A earns 5,000 pa, and Mr B earns 500,000 pa.

With a flat tax of, for example, 20%, Mr A would be paying 1,000, and Mr B would be paying 100,000.

Whose 20% do you think is more important to ensuring his family can be fed and clothed and educated? The guy with 4,000 left or the guy with 400,000 left?

Also, which is more important to the Revenue's coffers, the 1,000 which is nothing, or the 100,000 which is a substantial bill. Why do you wish to starve poor people's children for a measly 1,000?

It also seems with your statement "it also forces everyone who reaps benifits from the state to contribute to the state" means that you want welfare recipients to pay taxes on their welfare?

I have to say KJ, your pro-life, pro-war, pro-death penalty stance and your pro-starvation of children, anti-social welfare stance don't strike me as being very Christian.

D

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you are earning an income yes, you should be paying into the
system that is already assisting those below the poverty line, as well
as it does everyone else.

Yes I understand the concept of poverty; I've been poor a time or two
myself. That does not change the fact that if you are pulling out of
the common pot you should still be putting into it w ...[text shortened]... it will always be more, but it should be the same percentage
throughout your lifetime.
Kelly

Well, it never would have occurred to me that there may be individuals who believe that those in poverty are motivated by greed if they accept being exempt from paying taxes on their meager income. You really need to work on being able to see past your own nose.

Why is it so many "Christians" are so exceedingly self-centered? It is to them that Jesus said, "Then I will tell them,'I never knew you.'"

Originally posted by Ragnorak
So Mr A earns 5,000 pa, and Mr B earns 500,000 pa.

With a flat tax of, for example, 20%, Mr A would be paying 1,000, and Mr B would be paying 100,000.

Whose 20% do you think is more important to ensuring his family can be fed and clothed and educated? The guy with 4,000 left or the guy with 400,000 left?

Also, which is more important to the Revenu ...[text shortened]... ation of children, anti-social welfare stance don't strike me as being very Christian.

D

Excuse me whose money is more important? You can make that
judgment on just seeing the amount of money being earned? Suppose
Mr. B employees Mr. A, do you think Mr. A would be very happy to
see Mr. B lose his ability to meet all his needs and pay him for the
work he was doing for Mr. B? I'd say everyone feels their income is
very important to them, and you cannot tell me anyone's money is
more or less important just because you see an amount of money.

You are wrapped up in class an envy argument. I'm not willing to say
anyone should not be able to do with their income as they will. You
cannot make that type of judgment call by just looking at income
alone. Normally, those that are making that kind of money are doing
more with it than buying the car they want to drive and spend the
rest of the time looking at their bank account. Greed is at the bottom
of taking more from others so you don’t have to do for yourself.

I have already said that no one should be paying taxes on money
they get from the state in benefits. If you are on welfare you are
should not be getting taxed on that money from the state, if you
are earning money on top of that, yes you should be paying into
the state coffers like everyone else.

I have to say your desire to make this about Christianity shows
a lack of argument on your side of the discussion. If you read
the scriptures you will find that the Bible has some strong words
on if you don’t work you don’t eat too. Every one needs to be
pulling their own weight as they can.
Kelly

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Well, it never would have occurred to me that there may be individuals who believe that those in poverty are motivated by greed if they accept being exempt from paying taxes on their meager income. You really need to work on being able to see past your own nose.

Why is it so many "Christians" are so exceedingly self-centered? It is to them that Jesus said, "Then I will tell them,'I never knew you.'"

I suggest you talk about something you know, Christianity does not
appear to be your strong point.

Greed does not have a cut off on when someone can be greedy or
cannot be with respect to how much money they earn! You can be
rich and greedy or poor and greedy the income does not stop or
cause someone to be greedy. Where you are on the income
level spectrum has no bearing on if you are greedy or not, that
is a heart condition not a pocket book condition? Just as being
honest does not have anything to do with how much money you
have or do not have.
Kelly

Originally posted by Ragnorak
So Mr A earns 5,000 pa, and Mr B earns 500,000 pa.

With a flat tax of, for example, 20%, Mr A would be paying 1,000, and Mr B would be paying 100,000.

Whose 20% do you think is more important to ensuring his family can be fed and clothed and educated? The guy with 4,000 left or the guy with 400,000 left?

Also, which is more important to the Revenu ation of children, anti-social welfare stance don't strike me as being very Christian.

D

You have seen me talk about being pro-war or are you just lumping
me into a group of people due to your prejudice? Now you are making
up a horrible thing about me by saying I'm pro-starvation of children,
you are a hateful person. I've had a child die and I don't care one wit
for your stinking statement saying I favor such things.
Kelly