Black music

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
I meant in the sense of rap. Jazz actually began on the plantations, took a European detour then remorphed into what we know it as today. Perhaps where I went wrong is in conjuring up an image of saggy panted jazzists playing in the ghetto and rejected such an image. Plus I already stated I stand corrected. I also made the association statment as meanin ...[text shortened]... average listener whereas rap openly glorifies drugs, rape, criminality, domestic violence, etc.

The plantation as a beginning I've read about and is one I tend to agree with.

I go to jazz concerts as often as possible and the whole scene seems to be quite clean of drugs today from the musicians to the fans. I also think that jazz has become more mathematical in structure and in soloing of late.

Originally posted by badmoon
The plantation as a beginning I've read about and is one I tend to agree with.

I go to jazz concerts as often as possible and the whole scene seems to be quite clean of drugs today from the musicians to the fans. I also think that jazz has become more mathematical in structure and in soloing of late.

Jazz is a wonderful art form. Jusy when one thinks it's all exhausted then one listens to some the old greats. I love Django Reinhardt. Also got an old recording of Cab Callaway out of the library and was blown away by his inventiveness and innovative approach. My wife collects old classic jazz little by little. If my memory does not fail me you're a muscian or just a big fan?

Great that the scene has cleaned up. We've lost too many music greats to the scourge of drugs.

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
I meant in the sense of rap. Jazz actually began on the plantations, took a European detour then remorphed into what we know it as today. Perhaps where I went wrong is in conjuring up an image of saggy panted jazzists playing in the ghetto and rejected such an image. Plus I already stated I stand corrected. I also made the association statment as meanin ...[text shortened]... average listener whereas rap openly glorifies drugs, rape, criminality, domestic violence, etc.

Began on the plantations? I'm not sure about that. I would say the evolution of jazz can be traced back to Congo Square in New Orleans. Congo Square being the place where every Sunday slaves could go to sing dance and play music. This is the place where African music traditions first melded with European instruments. The jazz paradigm that is mainly used today was concieved by Parker, Gillespie et al, in New York in the 1940's.

whereas rap openly glorifies drugs, rape, criminality, domestic violence, etc.

No. You mean 'some' rap artists 'openly glorifies drugs, rape, criminality, domestic violence, etc'. Let's not tarnish all rap artists with the same brush.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Began on the plantations? I'm not sure about that. I would say the evolution of jazz can be traced back to Congo Square in New Orleans. Congo Square being the place where every Sunday slaves could go to sing dance and play music. This is the place where African music traditions first melded with European instruments. The jazz paradigm that is mainly used ...[text shortened]... minality, domestic violence, etc'. Let's not tarnish all rap artists with the same brush.

Why not? I don't hear of any who disavow the worst of it.

Jazz' orgins can be traced to early 19th century plantations. It becomes urban, indeed in NO after Scott Joplin propels its evolution forward.

From wiki:
By 1808 the Atlantic slave trade had brought almost half a million Africans to the United States. The slaves largely came from West Africa and brought strong tribal musical traditions with them.[16] Lavish festivals featuring African dances to drums were organized on Sundays at Place Congo, or Congo Square, in New Orleans until 1843, as were similar gatherings in New England and New York. African music was largely functional, for work or ritual, and included work songs and field hollers. The African tradition made use of a single-line melody and call-and-response pattern, but without the European concept of harmony. Rhythms reflected African speech patterns, and the African use of pentatonic scales led to blue notes in blues and jazz.[17]


The blackface Virginia Minstrels in 1843, featuring tambourine, fiddle, banjo and bones.In the early 19th century an increasing number of black musicians learned to play European instruments, particularly the violin, which they used to parody European dance music in their own cakewalk dances. In turn, European-American minstrel show performers in blackface popularized such music internationally, combining syncopation with European harmonic accompaniment. Louis Moreau Gottschalk adapted African-American cakewalk music, South American, Caribbean and other slave melodies as piano salon music. Another influence came from black slaves who had learned the harmonic style of hymns and incorporated it into their own music as spirituals.[18] The origins of the blues are undocumented, though they can be seen as the secular counterpart of the spirituals. Paul Oliver has drawn attention to similarities in instruments, music and social function to the griots of the West African savannah.[19

I think if anyone is serious about criticizing music, they should avoid putting down whole genres.
Firstly, I find that there is always at least a couple of bands that I like in any genre, even if I dislike most of the rest of the music from that genre.
Secondly, as far as rap is concerned, I see it as a reaction to the restraints/inequalities that have been put on the blacks by whites for so long.

Unfortunatley most of what reaches our ears of a musical genre that we dont like, is usually the commercial, watered down stuff.

Like modern day R'n'B. It just puts me to sleep, however I dont doubt there are some really good artists in this genre.

if you don't see the evolution of music(if we are talking "black" here which is a joke in itself) then you need to pick up a book and read some history. " Music is a history and its progresses. Wow jazz went to blues, and picked up some country... that picked up some gospel... that went to rock and roll... that picked up some dance... then folk. then "and genre here". If you want to say Jay-z is worse than Bird than you are just ignorant.

Originally posted by StTito
if you don't see the evolution of music(if we are talking "black" here which is a joke in itself) then you need to pick up a book and read some history. " Music is a history and its progresses. Wow jazz went to blues, and picked up some country... that picked up some gospel... that went to rock and roll... that picked up some dance... then folk. then "and genre here". If you want to say Jay-z is worse than Bird than you are just ignorant.

Jay Z is no Charly Bird Parker. Jay Z is nothing more than a over produced lucky guy.

Originally posted by buckky
Jay Z is no Charly Bird Parker. Jay Z is nothing more than a over produced lucky guy.

Amen, brother! Add the Black Eyed Piss, I mean Peas. God, they were awful at halftime at SB last Sunday!

Originally posted by Proper Knob
whereas rap openly glorifies drugs, rape, criminality, domestic violence, etc.

No. You mean 'some' rap artists 'openly glorifies drugs, rape, criminality, domestic violence, etc'. Let's not tarnish all rap artists with the same brush.

Summertime by Will Smith

YouTube

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
Improv exists in all sorts of music. Jazz requires much greater skill then rap. To each his own. If you like rap stick with it. By far jazz is a better art form. I don't like rap, never will, find it mind numbing and mostly grotesque.

My definition of rap: Anger set to percussion.

Ah, broad stereotypes. Where would we be without them? Oh yeah we would be open minded. It is funny that all the negative things being said about hip-hop were the same things said about jazz, blues, and rock and roll back in the day. I'm 36 and I feel young compared to these haters.

Originally posted by StTito
Ah, broad stereotypes. Where would we be without them? Oh yeah we would be open minded. It is funny that all the negative things being said about hip-hop were the same things said about jazz, blues, and rock and roll back in the day. I'm 36 and I feel young compared to these haters.

Except they were wrong about jazz, blues, rock. They said the same thing about Beethoven's Grosse Fugue. So what? Hopefully in a few years rap will be but a mere blip in the stream of msuic history, all but fogotten for the garbage it is, relegated to February alone by special interest groups. None of us who dilike it hate it. WE simply intensely dilsike it. You confuse this for hate. I would never buy it, but I certainly would not destroy it. You try and destroy what you hate.

But I digress. Jazz, blues, rock will never be relegated to a mere curiosity of music. These genres live on and are as appelaing as always. Rap has absolutely no appeal. Like sonhouse says: "Anger set to percussion".

Originally posted by StTito
Ah, broad stereotypes. Where would we be without them? Oh yeah we would be open minded. It is funny that all the negative things being said about hip-hop were the same things said about jazz, blues, and rock and roll back in the day. I'm 36 and I feel young compared to these haters.

"ditto"
right down to being 36 🙂

Scacci-knock it off. you've made your point. I know heaps more music that is just is bad as rap.

I actually have some rap in my collection. One of my favorite jazz recordings over the last few years is by the Dirty Dozen Brass Band in which Dr Dre participates. When I hear some rap it sounds almost like a tenor sax player moving around the beat...not often, mind you. I can see a merge of jazz/rap and hip hop more frequently if they were more of an open mind.

Again rap isn't really my bag but I have to ask - would Miles have used rap or hip hop sounds if he were still alive? I think that he may well have.

"Anger set to percussion"
because white man hasn't humiliated himself by doing this? Hardcore, grunge, scene, metal, punk... these genres are littered with horrible, horrible music.

Besides, I'd much rather take someone expressing their anger against society than a poppy, materialistic song.

Now, here's some good, clean, black rap that has good messages

Both by Living Legends
Forces of Nature-
YouTube

Remember Who You Are-
YouTube