Originally posted by PalynkaIt is not my standards what count. Nor yours. It is what is
Lol!!
And the 'system' is composed of whom? Aliens?
Some feminists are as oppressive of women as men. Oppression is attempting to impose your standards of what 'real' women should be like. Replacing one type of standard for another is also oppressive.
imposed and what is not. My opinion is not imposed on anybody
(and I would'nt like to do it, anyway)... but the system does, and
you cannot escape it, because is everywhere: TV, magazines,
bilboards, etc.
And regarding the 'system' thing... no, not aliens, but you should
really learn how institutions work, independent from their
members.
Check this, for example:
http://www.arena.uio.no/publications/working-papers2005/papers/wp05_11.pdf
The Center for European Studies of the University of Oslo is a serious
source of really good research on law, political science, and economics.
By the way, I am really happy that you started to actually debate.
Originally posted by SeitseThat's an interesting point of view. I can certainly see your point there.
This world is no more about genders, but about we, the people, and
them, the corporations.
But, if a woman has an operation because she feels it's right for her, who
are any of us to judge that? And, mind you, not all boob jobs are equal.
Some women have their breasts operated not from small to big, but big
to a handful. It's because they get back problems otherwise. And some
have operations because for whatever reason (cancer, abusive partners)
their real breasts were damaged.
I think, despite your good intentions, you are perhaps waving the flag
against oppression a little too vigorously. Not all breast implants are had
for the wrong reasons, and so I fail to see why we should look at women
with implants as brainwashed idiots (though, no doubt, there are many
bimbos - female and otherwise - out there, playing the greedy
corporations right in their hands).
Yeah, I see what you mean and I agree, so I should underline
this: I think people can do whatever they want in exercise of
their freedom, and as long as they don't invade the sphere of rights
of the 'other'.
That said, I think it is clear that my critique of the brainwashing of the
system does not translate into a "ban the boob jobs".
Originally posted by SeitseAre you listening to yourself?
It is not [b]my standards what count. Nor yours. It is what is
imposed and what is not. My opinion is not imposed on anybody
(and I would'nt like to do it, anyway)... but the system does, and
you cannot escape it, because is everywhere: TV, magazines,
bilboards, etc.
And regarding the 'system' thing... no, not aliens, but you should
really ...[text shortened]... , and economics.
By the way, I am really happy that you started to actually debate.[/b]
You claim people with breast implants are 'brainwashed' and unable to resist 'the system' based on what? Your own prejudice.
I know perfectly well how institutions work, it's part of my field to know them. It's false to claim that institutions are independent of their members, in the same way that individual behaviour is independent of institutions. Individual behaviour is endogenous in institutions, which is quite a different matter.
I strive for the minimization of institutional pressure on all individual behaviours that affect significantly only the individual in question. Drugs, piercings, sexual orientation, breast implants, euthanasia, are all examples of such behaviours. It's a question of coherence, actually, one that you should ask yourself.
1 edit
Originally posted by Palynkastop pretending that "judging someone" is a bad thing. It's a criticism that is an overused, misplaced misnomer that people use as an excuse to mask their own personal deviances. "don't judge me" is a joke.
Ask each one of them. And then ask yourself who are you to judge their decision.
If a person says to you, "I like to rape people, care to have a drink with me?", are you going to then say to yourself, "well, i'm not supposed to judge people based on their actions, so sure, I'll have a drink with this guy...he seems nice enough".
BS, you make your mind up about this guy based on his actions. You "judge" his character and decide for youself whether or not you want to hang out with him based on this one action.
Breast implants are the same thing, although to a lesser extremity. You ask yourself, "what is it about this girl that made her WANT to get a boob job" If you find out it's just because she wanted to be better looking then you ask yourself if you really want to be with and spend your time with someone that thinks that way.
Boob Jobs are your classical "indicator species". in biology. (instead of testing river water with hundreds of chemcial tests, you can predict how good the water quality of the river is by studying the insects that live in the river...certain species of insects will only live in good quality water so if you find them, you know the water is good without having to actually test the water)
You "judge" her suitability and compatability with you based on her actions.
So PLEASE, enough with the "don't judge people" BS.
EDIT: But like I said earlier, If people want to swim in the shallow end, I say let em.
Originally posted by SeitsePrejudice is not simply about what's legal or illegal. It's about preconceptions of people based on external signs that have no relevance with their abilities, which translate in things that go from job opportunities to social exclusion.
Yeah, I see what you mean and I agree, so I should underline
this: I think people can do whatever they want in exercise of
their freedom, and as long as they don't invade the sphere of rights
of the 'other'.
That said, I think it is clear that my critique of the brainwashing of the
system [b]does not translate into a "ban the boob jobs".[/b]
Originally posted by uzlessRape is not an individual behaviour that affects only the individual. If you can't see the difference, then there's not really a lot more to discuss.
stop pretending that "judging someone" is a bad thing. It's a criticism that is an overused, misplaced misnomer that people use as an excuse to mask their own personal deviances. "don't judge me" is a joke.
If a person says to you, "I like to rape people, care to have a drink with me?", are you going to then say to yourself, "well, i'm not supposed to ju ...[text shortened]... d on her actions.
So PLEASE, enough with the "don't judge people" BS.
Originally posted by uzlessWhy do we try to look good (whatever our idea about looking good is) at
WHY do women want breast implants for purely cosmetic reasons in the first place?
all? The fact is, that looks matter. Not just because media tells us so,
but because we all react (whether we realise it or not) to the way people
around us look. It's not necessarily due to what we're imprinted by
media. I think the largest influence on what we like and not is the people
directly around us (friends, family and perhaps most importantly distant
relations). If I meet a person having a certain looks about him/her and
everything about that meeting is a positive and pleasant experience, it
will no doubt affect me, such that when I later in life meet someone with
similar characteristics I will initially like that person. The same goes for
the opposite of course. This is why I think it can be just as damaging
when people start yelling about how the media is trying to sell us a
certain model, shove it down our throats, and how we should all really
dislike it. Because, then the opposite happens. Women blessed by
nature with big breasts and a certain flair will be oppressed. Should
they now operate on themselves to avoid looking like a barbie,
because they have brains and don't want to be treated like dumb
bimbos?
Originally posted by stockenAmen.
Why do we try to look good (whatever our idea about looking good is) at
all? The fact is, that looks matter. Not just because media tells us so,
but because we all react (whether we realise it or not) to the way people
around us look. It's not necessarily due to what we're imprinted by
media. I think the largest influence on what we like and not is t ...[text shortened]... a barbie,
because they have brains and don't want to be treated like dumb
bimbos?
Originally posted by PalynkaAnd now the donkey speaks about ears, lol.
It's a question of coherence, actually, one that you should ask yourself.
If you would really understand social sciences, you should now that
critic analysis is a fundamental aprt of how institutions can change,
but asserting that individuals are capable of consciously changing
them is naive, to say the least.
That's why institutionalism is such an interesting research area. If
individuals were able to change institutions consciously, immediately
and during their lifetime, we should just cancel social science
departments at the universities. That just doesn't make sense.
And uzless is right. Stop that sanctimonious 'let's all be free' attitude
that sounds like a coca-cola commercial. Analysis require to be
harsh, to judge, while recognizing people's fundamental rights.
Originally posted by PalynkaInstead of answering the question, you attack the question...you'd make a great politician.
LOL, one of us didn't, that's for sure.
Will you be able to understand the similie if I change the example to a guy who picks his nose and sticks it in his hair instead of using hair gel? Or, a girl gets a fake beard tatoo'd on her face? etc etc
Originally posted by PalynkaDon't lecture me, boy, copy-pasting from "Sociology for Dummies",
Prejudice is not simply about what's legal or illegal. It's about preconceptions of people based on external signs that have no relevance with their abilities, which translate in things that go from job opportunities to social exclusion.
we all know that is not the issue.
Coherence, remember.