COVID Vaccines Saved 3 Million Lives in US

@metal-brain said
@divegeester

You mean the CDC's nonsense if you are going to insist on that BS denial.

VAERS is widely acknowledged, even by the CDC, to be vastly underreported. From their Dataguide:

"'Under reporting' is one of the main limitations of passive surveillance systems, including VAERS. The term, under reporting, refers to the fact that VAERS receives reports for onl ...[text shortened]... h."

Do you have any intention of resolving the contradictions?
If not, you are fooling yourself.

"14,506 deaths is an underestimate according to the CDC. "

This is an outright lie. The CDC never said such a thing and has made clear that that number contains any death that occurred in a period after the vaccine, not from the vaccine.

As far as I can tell, the CDC has said 3 deaths in the US had a causal relationship to the vaccine. Anyone is welcome to show me CDC data for more.

@wajoma said
Depends doesn't it. How thorough the autopsies. Here's a study out of Germany where 25 autopsies of people who died within 20 days of the jab found that 20% clearly showed the vax was responsible. They used special tissue stains which showed spike protein had infiltrated heart tissue, resulting in massive inflammation.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00392-022- ...[text shortened]... only assume your falsehoods are unintentional at this stage but time is running out on that excuse.

No, 10% of the VAERS number is a preposterous over-estimate.

I offered one in a million, which is generous given the New Zealand data. So unless you're willing to accept that estimate and an estimate of something like 40,000 lives saved in New Zealand because of the vaccines, this discussion is going nowhere.

@no1marauder said
They are not reported deaths from the vaccines:

"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires health care providers to report any serious adverse event (including death) that happens after a COVID-19 vaccination – whether or not the provider thinks there is any link. The CDC says, [b]"Health care providers are required to report to VAERS the following adverse ...[text shortened]... ll soon start a thread about the dangers of the flu vaccine turning people into the Incredible Hulk.

Your link says "This blog was originally published May 13, 2021. The numbers cited were updated to be current as of Nov. 9, 2021."

That means your 14,506 deaths number you got from that website is outdated and is much higher. Update the VAERS number of deaths. The irony is that you posted an under count number. Fix your error so you are not misleading people here.

"The CDC says, "Health care providers are required to report to VAERS the following adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination…regardless if the reporter thinks the vaccine caused the AE." AE stands for adverse event and includes death."

From the CDC website:

Who can report to VAERS

CDC and FDA encourage anyone who experiences (or is made aware) of an adverse event after vaccination to report it to VAERS, even if they are not sure the vaccine caused the problem:

Patients
Parents/family member
Caregivers
Those who administer vaccines
Healthcare providers
Vaccine manufacturers

Reporting to VAERS helps CDC and FDA scientists keep vaccines safe.

@no1marauder said
No, 10% of the VAERS number is a preposterous over-estimate.

I offered one in a million, which is generous given the New Zealand data. So unless you're willing to accept that estimate and an estimate of something like 40,000 lives saved in New Zealand because of the vaccines, this discussion is going nowhere.

The German study showed 20% of the deaths within 20 days of the clot shot could be attributed to the clot shot. Why did they get that number and no one else did? Because of a much more thorough autopsy.

I rounded down to 10% (a still shocking number) so we couldn't quibble over margin of error or other shady 'How to Lie with Statistics' tricks.

@no1marauder said
No, 10% of the VAERS number is a preposterous over-estimate.

I offered one in a million, which is generous given the New Zealand data. So unless you're willing to accept that estimate and an estimate of something like 40,000 lives saved in New Zealand because of the vaccines, this discussion is going nowhere.

How do you rationalize that cognitive dissonance?

https://www.brightworkresearch.com/how-the-cdc-rigged-the-count-of-adverse-reactions-from-the-covid-vaccines-with-a-14-day-lag/

-Removed-

For the 504th time I am not anti vax. If you believe the juice is good for you take it, take it as much as you want, I heard of people that were selling their arm so to speak to people who didn't want it, taking multi shots under false IDs, if you like it so much you should also pay for it.

What I am opposed to is peoples jobs, careers and businesses being threatened, their movements restricted, for a potentially harmful (currently thousands of claims being processed in Australia) potentially lethal, untested (for long term effects) experimental drug. A little ole right called 'informed consent' a natural right, a human right.

@no1marauder said
No, 10% of the VAERS number is a preposterous over-estimate.

I offered one in a million, which is generous given the New Zealand data. So unless you're willing to accept that estimate and an estimate of something like 40,000 lives saved in New Zealand because of the vaccines, this discussion is going nowhere.

Another trick No1 likes to use is recycled stats. Put up some number or percentage known as a correlation. Then claim causation for mask mandates, later claim causation seizure syrup, recycle it again for lock-downs, on another thread link the number to the sadism of masking kids in schools, anything as long as it involves the force of the state.

@no1marauder said
"14,506 deaths is an underestimate according to the CDC. "

This is an outright lie. The CDC never said such a thing and has made clear that that number contains any death that occurred in a period after the vaccine, not from the vaccine.

As far as I can tell, the CDC has said 3 deaths in the US had a causal relationship to the vaccine. Anyone is welcome to show me CDC data for more.

From the VAERS link below:

""Underreporting" is one of the main limitations of passive surveillance systems, including VAERS. The term, underreporting refers to the fact that VAERS receives reports for only a small fraction of actual adverse events. The degree of underreporting varies widely."

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html

You are wrong again.

@wajoma said
The German study showed 20% of the deaths within 20 days of the clot shot could be attributed to the clot shot. Why did they get that number and no one else did? Because of a much more thorough autopsy.

I rounded down to 10% (a still shocking number) so we couldn't quibble over margin of error or other shady 'How to Lie with Statistics' tricks.

No, it didn't. If you bothered to read the last paragraph of the study, you'd see it declined to find any causal relationship between the deaths and the vaccines.

@metal-brain said
From the VAERS link below:

""Underreporting" is one of the main limitations of passive surveillance systems, including VAERS. The term, underreporting refers to the fact that VAERS receives reports for only a small fraction of actual adverse events. The degree of underreporting varies widely."

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html

You are wrong again.

This is typical of your posts; you keep posting something that has already been debunked.

For the last time, deaths following the vaccines are required to be reported, most other "adverse events" are not.

@wajoma said
For the 504th time I am not anti vax. If you believe the juice is good for you take it, take it as much as you want, I heard of people that were selling their arm so to speak to people who didn't want it, taking multi shots under false IDs, if you like it so much you should also pay for it.

What I am opposed to is peoples jobs, careers and businesses being threatened, thei ...[text shortened]... ts) experimental drug. A little ole right called 'informed consent' a natural right, a human right.

You grossly exaggerate any danger from the vaccines while refusing to concede their extraordinary benefits.

Sounds like an "anti vaxxer" to me.

@no1marauder said
This is typical of your posts; you keep posting something that has already been debunked.

For the last time, deaths following the vaccines are required to be reported, most other "adverse events" are not.

That might be compelling if it was being enforced. Here is an excerpt from the CDC link below:

"Healthcare providers are strongly encouraged to report to VAERS:"

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vaers/reportingaes.html

They encourage people to report AE because they have no enforcement of it. There is no penalty for not reporting it.

Damar Hamlin suffered a sudden cardiac arrest during Monday night's NFL game. The NFL had a vaccine mandate for all lower-level employees, and a vaccine coercion policy for players, during the 2021-22 season. The league reported that 94.1% of players were “fully vaccinated” by October 2021. Several NFL coaches quit because of the mandates. Let's hypothetically say he has another heart attack and dies. His doctor is a loyal democrat and decides the gene jab cannot possibly be responsible so he does not report it to VAERS.

Now let's imagine that he got a second clot shot 1 week before he had a heart attack. He has a republican doctor and he reports it to VAERS. Since people that get the second gene jab within 14 day are considered unvaccinated does VAERS count Damar's death and give him a proper VAERS ID number? Yes or no?

Also, from the same CDC link:

"VAERS reporting is not required for the following situations:

If a mixed series is given intentionally (e.g., due to hypersensitivity to a vaccine ingredient)
Mixing and matching of booster doses intentionally (as of October 21, 2021, mixing and matching of booster doses is allowed)"

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/public_surveys/died_suddenly_more_than_1_in_4_think_someone_they_know_died_from_covid_19_vaccines

@metal-brain said
How do you rationalize that cognitive dissonance?

https://www.brightworkresearch.com/how-the-cdc-rigged-the-count-of-adverse-reactions-from-the-covid-vaccines-with-a-14-day-lag/

You’re so full of moronity, the world pisses on you and the likes of you.

Sorry.
No more constructivism from me.
I hope you die.

-Removed-

A misunderstanding then, it seemed you were dividing people into either/or groups when in fact I am, as you are, a moderate.

"It seems to me that posters here are either hard pro or hard anti vaccinations, is that true? Any other moderates like myself?