@no1marauder said, "...might cause severe reactions (and death a small inconvenient oversight by No1) in a very small subset of those exposed to them."
I'll tell you what; if you concede that the vaccines have saved tens of thousands of New Zealanders' lives, I'll concede that they, like any medical treatment, might cause severe reactions in a very small subset of those exposed to them.
Deal?
...and therefore there should be zero, none, nada coercion to take the drug.
Then I'll concede we're making progress. Because then we'll need to discuss how many people you're prepared to sacrifice by force to your dream feelings, we'll discuss if you're happy to shove the potentially lethal needle into a reluctant citizen who believes the lies of the nz prime minister.
Edit: For the 502nd time, I'm not anti vaxx, you should mix it in your coffee and take it 5 times a day, you should dry it, roll it up with some tobacco and smoke it, you should fill a bath tub and bathe in it, is there some way it can be converted to sound so you can consume it through your head phones, take it, take it, take as much as you like.
@no1marauder saidDefine small.
I'll tell you what; if you concede that the vaccines have saved tens of thousands of New Zealanders' lives, I'll concede that they, like any medical treatment, might cause severe reactions in a very small subset of those exposed to them.
Deal?
You need to give a number. Saying you don't know how many but it is small is not an acceptable answer. The first step to finding a number is to look for one.
https://newspunch.com/japan-launches-official-investigation-into-millions-of-covid-vaccine-deaths/
@wajoma saidSince I'm not aware of any deaths associated with the use of the vaccines nor do I trust your interpretation of "coercion", I cannot agree with such a statement.
, "...might cause severe reactions (and death a small inconvenient oversight by No1) in a very small subset of those exposed to them."
...and therefore there should be zero, none, nada coercion to take the drug.
Then I'll concede we're making progress.
But does that mean you concede that tens of thousands of New Zealanders are alive today because of the vaccines?
EDIT: Upon further research, it appears that three deaths were attributed to blood clots perhaps caused by the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, which had been administered to 7 million persons in the US. The J & J vaccine was not used in New Zealand.
Otherwise: "After careful review of the additional data, doctors have decided that there is no evidence at all that the vaccines contributed to the other patient deaths. "
https://covid-101.org/science/how-many-people-have-died-from-the-vaccine-in-the-u-s/
Sorry, there is New Zealand data. Out of 11 million doses:
"15 deaths could not be assessed due to insufficient information
2 cases are still under investigation
2 deaths were determined by the Coroner to be due to myocarditis following first dose Covid-19 (Pfizer) vaccination
1 death was likely due to vaccine induced myocarditis (awaiting Coroner’s determination)
for 1 death a link to the vaccine could not be excluded, myocarditis was found at the time of death (this death is awaiting Coroner’s determination).
By chance, some people will experience new illnesses or die from a pre-existing condition shortly after vaccination, especially if they are elderly. Therefore, part of our review process includes comparing natural death rates to observed death rates following vaccination, to determine if there are any specific trends or patterns that might indicate a vaccine safety concern. See below for more information about these observed-versus-expected analyses.
To date, the observed number of deaths reported after vaccination is actually less than the expected number of natural deaths."
https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/safety-report-46.asp#death
So two deaths found by the Coroner to be due to myocarditis following a vaccination and two more from that condition awaiting a coroner's determination.
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@wajoma saidBut hey, I try to be reasonable with people I'm debating here, so:
, "...might cause severe reactions (and death a small inconvenient oversight by No1) in a very small subset of those exposed to them."
...and therefore there should be zero, none, nada coercion to take the drug.
Then I'll concede we're making progress. Because then we'll need to discuss how many people you're prepared to sacrifice by force to your dream fee ...[text shortened]... to sound so you can consume it through your head phones, take it, take it, take as much as you like.
Though the data seems to say it is less, let's say you have a 1 in a million chance of dying from a dose of the COVID vaccines;
While your chances of dying from COVID were something like 1 in a 100 if you caught it early in the pandemic, let's be generous and say a vaccinated person has a 1 in a 1000 chance of dying IF you give them the disease;
So their chance of death is 1000 times that of yours if you give them the disease than yours because you refuse to take the vaccine;
Now, granted even the vaccinated can spread the disease, but the chance of the unvaccinated is considerably higher.
So what "coercion" was done to "force" people to be vaccinated in New Zealand and thereby reduce this threat to public health?
@mghrn55 saidVAERS is widely acknowledged, even by the CDC, to be vastly underreported. From their Dataguide:
Flu shots can kill people.
Someone can come up with some numbers that states that the shots kill more people than the lives they save.
No rumble.com please.
"'Underreporting' is one of the main limitations of passive surveillance systems, including VAERS. The term, underreporting, refers to the fact that VAERS receives reports for only a small fraction of actual adverse events. The degree of underreporting varies widely."
https://openvaers.com/faq/what-is-underreporting-and-why-it-matters
The CDC relies on unnamed people to fraudulently dismiss reported deaths as false reporting. In other words, no1 thinks there is a conspiracy to falsely report deaths. He has a conspiracy theory while calling vaccinated people anti vaxxer. If he was honest he would say anti gene vaccine.
How many gene vaccine deaths have been reported to VAERS? Start there.
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@metal-brain saidYou know perfectly well VAERS is raw data that in no way gives any number, never mind a reliable number, of deaths caused by the COVID vaccine.
VAERS is widely acknowledged, even by the CDC, to be vastly underreported. From their Dataguide:
"'Underreporting' is one of the main limitations of passive surveillance systems, including VAERS. The term, underreporting, refers to the fact that VAERS receives reports for only a small fraction of actual adverse events. The degree of underreporting varies widely."
ht ...[text shortened]... ld say anti gene vaccine.
How many gene vaccine deaths have been reported to VAERS? Start there.
The most reliable number as far as the US is concerned I could find as I already stated was 3, caused by blood clots by the J & J vaccine. https://covid-101.org/science/how-many-people-have-died-from-the-vaccine-in-the-u-s/
@no1marauder said"You know perfectly well VAERS is raw data that in no way gives any number"
You know perfectly well VAERS is raw data that in no way gives any number, never mind a reliable number, of deaths caused by the COVID vaccine.
The most reliable number as far as the US is concerned I could find as I already stated was 3, caused by blood clots by the J & J vaccine. https://covid-101.org/science/how-many-people-have-died-from-the-vaccine-in-the-u-s/
That is a lie. They give a number. The VAERS website makes it hard to find them, but their job is to report the numbers. Where do you think the CDC got their data from? DUH!
@metal-brain saidThis is part of your nutty conspiracy theory that I've debunked probably a dozen times in the last two and a half years. I won't bother to again.
"You know perfectly well VAERS is raw data that in no way gives any number"
That is a lie. They give a number. The VAERS website makes it hard to find them, but their job is to report the numbers. Where do you think the CDC got their data from? DUH!
If anybody is still interested: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-usa/fact-check-vaers-data-does-not-suggest-covid-19-vaccines-killed-150000-people-as-analysis-claims-idUSL1N2R00KP
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/does-vaers-list-deaths-caused-by-covid-19-vaccines
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/vaers-and-vaccine-safety
@no1marauder saidLOL!
This is part of your nutty conspiracy theory that I've debunked probably a dozen times in the last two and a half years. I won't bother to again.
If anybody is still interested: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-usa/fact-check-vaers-data-does-not-suggest-covid-19-vaccines-killed-150000-people-as-analysis-claims-idUSL1N2R00KP
https://www.nebraskam ...[text shortened]... s-list-deaths-caused-by-covid-19-vaccines
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/vaers-and-vaccine-safety
You have a conspiracy theory that people are conspiring to falsely report covid vaccine deaths the VAERS. The CDC said VAERS data was an under reported number. Now that people are dying from covid vaccines they say it is an over reported number. The CDC contradicted themselves.
Find the VAERS reported deaths number from the gene vaccines and post the number. Then we can talk about how accurate it is and your conspiracy theory of data crashing or whatever you call it.
@no1marauder saidThe J&J vaccine is not the mRNA ones that were mass distributed. Those were Pfizer and Moderna. J&J made a DNA vaccine with a viral vector I believe.
You know perfectly well VAERS is raw data that in no way gives any number, never mind a reliable number, of deaths caused by the COVID vaccine.
The most reliable number as far as the US is concerned I could find as I already stated was 3, caused by blood clots by the J & J vaccine. https://covid-101.org/science/how-many-people-have-died-from-the-vaccine-in-the-u-s/
@metal-brain saidThere is no VAERS reported deaths number from the vaccines as the articles I cited to patiently explain.
LOL!
You have a conspiracy theory that people are conspiring to falsely report covid vaccine deaths the VAERS. The CDC said VAERS data was an under reported number. Now that people are dying from covid vaccines they say it is an over reported number. The CDC contradicted themselves.
Find the VAERS reported deaths number from the gene vaccines and post the number. Then ...[text shortened]... n talk about how accurate it is and your conspiracy theory of data crashing or whatever you call it.
@athousandyoung saidViral Vector Vaccines are gene vaccines too. They use a genetically engineered virus to deliver the gene to your cells. They just have a different delivery system, that is all.
The J&J vaccine is not the mRNA ones that were mass distributed. Those were Pfizer and Moderna. J&J made a DNA vaccine with a viral vector I believe.