29 Nov 05
In the invade Iran & NK thread Delmer seemed to believe that GW never lied in regards to Iraq. Now the Downing Street memo seems to contradict Delmer. I was wondering how many of you believe that GW Bush and his happy band of Nazis didn't know that the information they were getting was false.
I personally believe that he knew, he lied and people died because of it.
29 Nov 05
Originally posted by CliffLandinLies were told thats a fact. What is not so clear is how much Bush
In the invade Iran & NK thread Delmer seemed to [b]believe that GW never lied in regards to Iraq. Now the Downing Street memo seems to contradict Delmer. I was wondering how many of you believe that GW Bush and his happy band of Nazis didn't know that the information they were getting was false.
I personally believe that he knew, he lied and people died because of it.[/b]
knew. There has always been a component of Bush's mentality that
he didn't think Daddy finished the job in Iraq the first time.
I think he may have been fed bs by his intelligence team and
his own prediliction to attack Iraq took over, to americas shame,
I might add. Instead of going after the one we KNOW was behind
the 9-11 attacks, Bin Laden, hiding out in the mountains near
Pakistan, he attacks Iraq and now he is so shocked we weren't
welcomed with open arms. Seems to me if we had put 100,000
troops scouring the mountains of Afganistan and Pakistan,
Ben Laden and his filthy crew would be in jail or feeding jackles now.
29 Nov 05
I was wondering how many of you believe that GW Bush and his happy band of Nazis didn't know that the information they were getting was false.There is a least one lie in your statement:
I personally believe that he knew, he lied and people died because of it.[/b]
There are not a "happy band". I doubt if they are Nazi's either.
29 Nov 05
Originally posted by sonhouseI think this war pencilled in to the diary before 9/11.
Lies were told thats a fact. What is not so clear is how much Bush
knew. There has always been a component of Bush's mentality that
he didn't think Daddy finished the job in Iraq the first time.
I think he may have been fed bs by his intelligence team and
his own prediliction to attack Iraq took over, to americas shame,
I might add. Instead of going ...[text shortened]... Afganistan and Pakistan,
Ben Laden and his filthy crew would be in jail or feeding jackles now.
I think GWB deliberately mislead the world over the threat from WMD.
I believe there is nothing Saddam could have done to avoid this war.
29 Nov 05
1 edit
Did Bush Lie?Bush's statements, in chronological order, were:
United Nations Address, Sept. 12, 2002:
"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
Radio Address, Oct. 5, 2002:
"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons."
"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech, Oct. 7, 2002:
"The Iraqi regime... possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons."
"We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."
"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States."
"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" -- his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."
State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003:
"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."
Address to the Nation, March 17, 2003:
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure the memo proves anything...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_memo
Is there evidence that the President or members of the White House
staff knew that claims they were making regarding Iraq's alleged
arsenal of weapons of mass destruction were untrue?
29 Nov 05
Originally posted by CliffLandinI believe CL lies when he refers to Bush's "happy band of Nazis".
In the invade Iran & NK thread Delmer seemed to [b]believe that GW never lied in regards to Iraq. Now the Downing Street memo seems to contradict Delmer. I was wondering how many of you believe that GW Bush and his happy band of Nazis didn't know that the information they were getting was false.
I personally believe that he knew, he lied and people died because of it.[/b]
Or perhaps CL will now present proof that such are members of the Nazi party.
29 Nov 05
Both Bush and B-liar were telling lies. Hans Blix's reports showed, on numberous occasions, no evidence for any contravention of the UN security resolutions. The UN had the option of repremanding Saddam, but saw no need, as he hadn't broken any (serious) resolutions. The UN did not go to war, because the war should never have been fought. The US population were duped by the very government that they chose to represent them. And now the children of the US are dying in Iraq for a war that only GWB and his 'happy little band of (neo-) Nazi's'. Worse still though, is the number of innocent Iraqi citizens, who attacked no-one, who have been killed in a war which has nothing to do with protecting anyone (except Halliburton directors). We don't evenknow how many Iraqi's we killed because they're not worth counting apparently.
Embarressed to be British
29 Nov 05
Originally posted by scottishinnzNo doubt there are many Brits who are also embarrassed that you're British.
Both Bush and B-liar were telling lies. Hans Blix's reports showed, on numberous occasions, no evidence for any contravention of the UN security resolutions. The UN had the option of repremanding Saddam, but saw no need, as he hadn't broken any (serious) resolutions. The UN did not go to war, because the war should never have been fought. The US p ...[text shortened]... Iraqi's we killed because they're not worth counting apparently.
Embarressed to be British
29 Nov 05
Bush lied!
Bush caused Katrina to hit New Orleans.
Bush caused the Tsunami.
Bush made it snow in the North East yesterday.
Bush caused the Earthquake in Pakistan.
Bush voted against the resurrection of Christ.
Bush this. Bush that.
The only thing truthful is when Bush told the Euro's to get flocked and for that I am ever grateful.
29 Nov 05
Originally posted by DelmerWell Del,
No doubt there are many Brits who are also embarrassed that you're British.
Seems like you took something I said personal. All I did was tell it like it is, any problems with that? Don't like the truth? Well, feel free to hit back with cheap comments like that one - if that's the best that you're seriously capable of. I'd have hoped that on a chess website of all places we might find people willing to engage in serious reasoned debate, and for the most part that's the way it is, a few people though seem to think that slinging insults constitues a serious philosophical position.
Laughable.
29 Nov 05
Originally posted by slimjimI agree Slim, Bush gets blamed for a lot of things that he:
Bush lied!
Bush caused Katrina to hit New Orleans.
Bush caused the Tsunami.
Bush made it snow in the North East yesterday.
Bush caused the Earthquake in Pakistan.
Bush voted against the resurrection of Christ.
Bush this. Bush that.
The only thing truthful is when Bush told the Euro's to get flocked and for that I am ever grateful.
a) has no control over
b) cannot and should not be blamed for
However on the question on whether Bush lied over Iraq, I would maintain he grossly exagerrated the threat because he wanted to go war to get a foothold in an important region.
29 Nov 05
Originally posted by scottishinnzOh please. "B-liar" is about as cheap a comment as you can get. You quoted the ridiculously exaggerated phrase, 'happy band of nazis', and threw in the usual, tired Halliburton accusation. You call this 'reasoned debate'? I could get this much from watching Saturday Night Live.
Well Del,
Seems like you took something I said personal. All I did was tell it like it is, any problems with that? Don't like the truth? Well, feel free to hit back with cheap comments like that one - if that's the best that you're seriously capable of. I'd have hoped that on a chess website of all places we might find people willing to engag ...[text shortened]... h seem to think that slinging insults constitues a serious philosophical position.
Laughable.
29 Nov 05
Originally posted by invigorateWhether he lied or not is pretty well a moot point right now. We just can't pack our bags and leave Iraq right now. It would only embolden the Islamic jihadists and make things worse. If it was up to me I'd withdraw the troops send about 50 nukes to Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait turn it into a Nuclear wasteland and if France wanted some oil from the US I would make Sophie Marceaux give me a hummer on CNN TV.
I agree Slim, Bush gets blamed for a lot of things that he:
a) has no control over
b) cannot and should not be blamed for
However on the question on whether Bush lied over Iraq, I would maintain he grossly exagerrated the threat because he wanted to go war to get a foothold in an important region.
29 Nov 05
Originally posted by slimjimWell, no-one ever said those things.
Bush lied!
Bush caused Katrina to hit New Orleans.
Bush caused the Tsunami.
Bush made it snow in the North East yesterday.
Bush caused the Earthquake in Pakistan.
Bush voted against the resurrection of Christ.
Bush this. Bush that.
The only thing truthful is when Bush told the Euro's to get flocked and for that I am ever grateful.
1) the 'facts' that Bush told were wrong. He probably knew this.
2) Bush probably did not cause Katerina to hit N/O. On the othe other hand he won't ratify the Kyoto accord, and global warming has been linked with an increase in extreme weather. Also Bush said that 'God told him to invade Iraq', well if God talks to George, maybe Goerge talks to God -then who knows??? :-P
3) Bush almost certainly didn;t cause the Tsunami - didn;t hit enough Muslim countries.
4) Bush made it snow in the North East yesterday. Quite possibly, and pleased you should be about it too. What else is Santa's sleigh going to run on?
5) Bush voted against the ressurection of Christ. Hope the Southern Christians don't hear about that one - could land the Republican party in trouble!
6) Bush this, Bush that. hey when you're the president of the USA expect a bit of flack.
Bush told Europe to get flocked. Fair enough. Tell the largest trading block in the world to go stuff itself - see how far that gets you.
29 Nov 05
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemFair enough - you've got your point of view.
Oh please. "B-liar" is about as cheap a comment as you can get. You quoted the ridiculously exaggerated phrase, 'happy band of nazis', and threw in the usual, tired Halliburton accusation. You call this 'reasoned debate'? I could get this much from watching Saturday Night Live.
The B-liar thing was a reference to a 'Sun' newspaper headline. The 'happy band of Nazis' quote has, i think, been sufficiently discussed and agreed to be tongue in cheek.
as for the Halliburton accusation, do you deny that over 80% of US-Aid goes directly into the coffers of US companies?
Feel free to watch Saturday night live, if that's what takes your fancy. You are, of course, feel free to do whatever you want.