@Rajk999 saidRight: there was an organized effort by Jews to displace the Palestinians, and the British assisted in facilitating the process. There was also deception. The British had negotiated with local Palestinians and assured them that the Jews moving in were set on just taking up homes there and living among the Palestinians.
The Jews bought land in Palestine. After the partition in 1948, both Jews and Arabs would have been displaced. The colonial owners, the British have the right to partition the land so that each group can live separately. From 1915 when the British moved in, it was clear that these two groups could not live in peace and needed to be separate.
The Colonial era is over. T ...[text shortened]... British, French, Spanish Dutch etc, all left their respective colonies to manage their own affairs.
But notice how your argument still is might makes right: The Colonialists have the right to divvy up the land to the Jews and create a separate state. They just do. They have the guns.
Yet, you still th ink it is important to bring up the narrative about purchasing land because even in a might makes right argument you need some veneer of authority.
@Philokalia saidYes, the Jews were living there some 2000 years ago, and much of the land was not occupied neither owned by Arabs. There was never an Arab state in Palestine, and never will be either. The local land owners, who were Arabs, Spanish, Chinese, or state land, sold land to the Jews way back as 1890 when the Zionist movement started.
Right: there was an organized effort by Jews to displace the Palestinians, and the British assisted in facilitating the process. There was also deception. The British had negotiated with local Palestinians and assured them that the Jews moving in were set on just taking up homes there and living among the Palestinians.
But notice how your argument still is might makes ...[text shortened]... rchasing land because even in a might makes right argument you need some veneer of authority.
Looking back into history and making moral judgments and claiming some kind of moral superiority is a stupid thing to do. In the early 1900s colonialism was common. All the European powers took control of various lands and called it their own. Nobody at that time thought anything of it.
The British owned Palestine and did what they promised to do in the Balfour Declaration of 1915 and with the approval of the UN in 1947, they passed over roughly half of Palestine to the Jews. The Jews were content with their portion but the Arabs, including Egypt, Syria etc started the war in 1948, claiming the land was all theirs and their will be no Jewish state.
At what point do you think they should stop, and think that this war is a lost cause? Its been about 110 years since the British took Palestine.
@Rajk999 saidThe Jews in Palestine should have thought of that long ago, 100 years ago.
Life lesson - if you dont want civilians killed, then dont kill the civilians of other nations.
@Earl-of-Trumps saidDont know what you on about. The Jews are doing well now and 100 years ago the Jews were doing well too ... buying up property in Palestine, having just completed negotiations with British for a homeland in Palestine. The Balfour Declaration was just released. This pissed off the Arabs and of course Jews were ecstatic. Hostilities was the order of the day. The Jews had nothing to think about. They had to fight for Palestine and they now have it .. and taking more too. Nobody is moving them.
The Jews in Palestine should have thought of that long ago, 100 years ago.
@the-grifter removed their quoted postThe greater Israel project is imperialism. It is no different than what the Nazis were doing. Invading other countries to form an empire.
@Rajk999 saidYou write about this as if all the land just has fallen legally into Jewish control via trade and that it was cleanly purchased (not true, unproven), and that such a series of acquisitions can legitimize the creation of a state by an immigrating extreme minority over the native population, which can then be summarily displaced via violence, and that none of that is a problem.
Yes, the Jews were living there some 2000 years ago, and much of the land was not occupied neither owned by Arabs. There was never an Arab state in Palestine, and never will be either. The local land owners, who were Arabs, Spanish, Chinese, or state land, sold land to the Jews way back as 1890 when the Zionist movement started.
Looking back into history and making mora ...[text shortened]... and think that this war is a lost cause? Its been about 110 years since the British took Palestine.
But the one smart thing that you did here was want to avoid discussing the history of the region because you understand that there can be no legitimate claim to it as Jewish land in this context, so you dismiss it all as "ancient history."
You can keep curating this debate so the topics seem smaller and smaller, but you will never actually discover a line that will give justification for what has happened there over the last century.
Hence why every line you try devolves into 'might makes right.'
@the-grifter removed their quoted postYou mean you didn't even understand what he said. The spelling is ISRAEL not ISREAL. I gather you never visited Israel.
@Philokalia saidIt can be easily established how much land was bought by the Zionist movement from around 1890 onward. Im not interested in the history of the USA and what % of land was owned by the native Indians either. Its irrelevant. People all over the world were moved, displaced, killed, replaced in that period, and there were no rules. Its irrelevant to people now... move on from that. Its as bad as descendants of African slaves wanting reparations because their grandparents suffered. Its stupid and childish. Arabs believing they own the entire region of Palestine and that they need to have full control over the whole region is both ridiculous, and greedy.
You write about this as if all the land just has fallen legally into Jewish control via trade and that it was cleanly purchased (not true, unproven), and that such a series of acquisitions can legitimize the creation of a state by an immigrating extreme minority over the native population, which can then be summarily displaced via violence, and that none of that is a probl ...[text shortened]... ened there over the last century.
Hence why every line you try devolves into 'might makes right.'
@Rajk999 saidThe British promised the entire region of Palestine and the whole Arabian peninsula to the Arabs. Then they betrayed them and broke that promise.
It can be easily established how much land was bought by the Zionist movement from around 1890 onward. Im not interested in the history of the USA and what % of land was owned by the native Indians either. Its irrelevant. People all over the world were moved, displaced, killed, replaced in that period, and there were no rules. Its irrelevant to people now... move on from th ...[text shortened]... estine and that they need to have full control over the whole region is both ridiculous, and greedy.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/who-was-lawrence-of-arabia
It was the British Empire who were greedy.
@Metal-Brain saidSykes-Picot discussed at 20:20 in the following clip
The British promised the entire region of Palestine and the whole Arabian peninsula to the Arabs. Then they betrayed them and broke that promise.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/who-was-lawrence-of-arabia
It was the British Empire who were greedy.
@Metal-Brain saidThe British did the smart thing. Had they given all that region to the Arabs the place would have been a backward stinking slum. The Jews turned it into a prosperous world class economy. Stop crying over it.
The British promised the entire region of Palestine and the whole Arabian peninsula to the Arabs. Then they betrayed them and broke that promise.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/who-was-lawrence-of-arabia
It was the British Empire who were greedy.
@Rajk999 saidWhy isn't Dearborn MI a backward stinking slum? Why so prosperous?
The British did the smart thing. Had they given all that region to the Arabs the place would have been a backward stinking slum. The Jews turned it into a prosperous world class economy. Stop crying over it.
Stop crying over it.
@Metal-Brain saidIt's in the US and they not killing Jews.
Why isn't Dearborn MI a backward stinking slum? Why so prosperous?
Stop crying over it.