@no1marauder saidYes, your analysis is correct about this being central to the plot. In fact, I have now learned more about the plot having read it -- initially, I did not know that it was for a competition in which they felt pressure to outperform a group of older girls. I had thought it existed purely in the overarching theme of a girl falling into the trap of imitating older, sexualized women and thus going down a dark path...
I watched the video embedded in the original link.
It's a bit over the top and probably meant to be; from the reviews I read, the idea was that the "Cuties" entered a dance contest against older girls and felt like they had to make their performance a bit more raunchy to win. Most of the audience in the clip is shown reacting with disapproval.
So it would seem the ...[text shortened]... s meant to be some soft core child pornography to appeal to pedophiles remains absolutely ludicrous.
The problem comes down to the aspect of simulation.
Simulated violence is completely fake, and thus there is no real harm.
Simulated sexuality actually communicates real sexuality, unlike simulated violence, and thus has an inherent harm when we are communicating simulated sexuality of minors.
@great-king-rat saidI see where your going wrong and why your not getting the relevance of my points.
Lots of things in this world exist in a gray area. Human beings aren’t always logical, we are not robots.
Yes, one thing might just be on one side of the line while the other crosses the line. Sue me for not adhering entirely to what you deem correct and incorrect.
You’ve mistaken your personal opinion for some sort of fact.
You say the depiction of sexual grooming and molestation in Lolita is fine but the dance scenes in cuties are not.
IMO your being disingenuous because IMO no reasonable person could arrive at that conclusion.
But I’m guessing you know for a fact I’m wrong about that.
@averagejoe1 saidI covered this in another thread.
Suzianne. Can you please respond to the above, am I not correct the cancel culture tells people what to do. But I make my own choice of whether to cancel Netflix or not. Do you see the difference? Are you there? Did u iverlook this post?
Why do you people ask a question, get an answer, and then say, "So that's it? No answer?"
You've been answered. Too bad you didn't like the answer.
@earl-of-trumps saidThere are movies of Lolita and I already linked to one!
Let's see what I can do to better shed some light on my PoV here...
Some countries banned Nabokov's novel, Lolita. This is understandable.
But let us keep in mind, Lolita is a novel, not reality. There are no real players here.
Now, if you made a PLAY called Lolita, that actually had a young teen play
out a sexual relationship ON STAGE every day, this w ...[text shortened]... t live with it, I fear that for you, it is the erotic young ones that have interested you all along.
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@athousandyoung saidI'd have to see Lolita before I could draw judgement.
There are movies of Lolita and I already linked to one!
Also, I would have to know the true age of the actress, not her fictional age in the movie.
@earl-of-trumps saidHow about ‘Taxi Driver’
I'd have to see Lolita before I could draw judgement.
Also, I would have to know the true age of the actress, not her fictional age in the movie.
“ A critical and commercial success upon release and nominated for four Academy Awards, including for Best Picture, Best Actor (for De Niro) and Best Supporting Actress (for Foster), Taxi Driver won the Palme d'Or at the 1976 Cannes Film Festival. The film generated controversy at the time of its release for its depiction of violence and casting of a 12-year-old Foster in the role of a child prostitute.”
Lolita (1962) S Kubrick
“ Owing to the Motion Picture Association of America's (MPAA) restrictions at the time, the film toned down the most provocative aspects of the novel, sometimes leaving much to the audience's imagination. The actress who played Lolita, Sue Lyon, was 14 at the time of filming.”
I hope this answers your question.
@kevcvs57 said“... sometimes leaving much to the audience's imagination.“
How about ‘Taxi Driver’
“ A critical and commercial success upon release and nominated for four Academy Awards, including for Best Picture, Best Actor (for De Niro) and Best Supporting Actress (for Foster), Taxi Driver won the Palme d'Or at the 1976 Cannes Film Festival. The film generated controversy at the time of its release for its depiction of violence and casting of a ...[text shortened]... ess who played Lolita, Sue Lyon, was 14 at the time of filming.”
I hope this answers your question.
Something the director of Cuties painfully failed to do.
Do you think having the girls in Cuties dance bare breasted would’ve been appropriate?
@jimmac saidYou keep talking about "establishing intent" but when I ask how you do that you say it's impossible!
You most definitely can by establishing intent. Also "vague"?? again, that is why I use the term Guise. In the case of "manslaughter" even though there is no intent, someone dies and you can go to jail, this is in the event of the possibility of the "accident" being used as an "out", so in this case why does intent even "need" to be established, even though ( as I claimed ) to ...[text shortened]... sed as a defense. Ok so as in pretend murder, manslaughter, pretend porn. both subject to penalties.
@great-king-rat saidYou need to see the film it was overtly about a middle aged man grooming a 14yr old girl and the sexual simulation scenes were more graphic and actually involved an adult Male and an actual 14yr old girl.
“... sometimes leaving much to the audience's imagination.“
Something the director of Cuties painfully failed to do.
Do you think having the girls in Cuties dance bare breasted would’ve been appropriate?
“ “... sometimes leaving much to the audience's imagination.“”
The fact that they left much to imagination in relation to what was a pornographic novel does does not make it less graphic than what was on cuties.
@great-king-rat saidDo you think having an actual 14yr old rubbing a middle aged mans groin is ok, really and somehow less disturbing than cuties. The facts aren’t exactly stacking up in favour of your argument are they.
“... sometimes leaving much to the audience's imagination.“
Something the director of Cuties painfully failed to do.
Do you think having the girls in Cuties dance bare breasted would’ve been appropriate?
@philokalia saidYou’ll need to trust me or watch the film Phil
Was there s situation like that, Kev?
I'd fully disapprove and would've been outraged.
What do you think of this dance scene from the film?
Would you encourage your daughter or granddaughter to take on such a role?
https://twitter.com/MaryMargOlohan/status/1303908536553017349?s=19
I haven’t seen it and from the sounds of it ( which doesn’t seem to be in dispute ) I wouldn’t want to but I won’t be cancelling Netflix or manning the moral barricades over this.
@kevcvs57 saidWould you be okay with the girls in Cuties dancing bare breasted?
Do you think having an actual 14yr old rubbing a middle aged mans groin is ok, really and somehow less disturbing than cuties. The facts aren’t exactly stacking up in favour of your argument are they.
Why are you so hesitant in voicing your opinion about this?
In fact, what do you think about the Lolita scene you keep referring to?
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@great-king-rat saidNo I wouldn’t be ok but then it’s for me to be ok or not be ok about it, that’s between them, their legal guardians and the artistic director, but then I’m not the great moral arbiter that you appear to be. I’m involved in this thread because of the hypocrisy of people who, apparently have just noticed that children are being sexualised in our societies, and incredulously think a Netflix film is responsible.
Would you be okay with the girls in Cuties dancing bare breasted?
Why are you so hesitant in voicing your opinion about this?
In fact, what do you think about the Lolita scene you keep referring to?
P.s you haven’t given an opinion on the 14yr old girl who was forced to rub / simulate the rubbing of a mans groin in lolita, why not? Because you apparently found that it didn’t cross the line that cuties crossed. Stop evading the obvious hypocrisy of your stance and explain the double standard.
@athousandyoung saidOf course it is impossible, people often do not know themselves why they do what they do, intent.
You keep talking about "establishing intent" but when I ask how you do that you say it's impossible!
They, the producers, can tell you their intent all day long, does not make it true. They could say they deliberately made porn, cannot think why, maybe to a mate, that does not make it so. as it happens, goes both ways.
But I did say that it is not actually necessary. It is what it is and not proving intent may mitigate sentencing in the event of a conviction.
I may be overusing/overstating the word intent but it still seems the best word.
Porn is porn, is what it is, even though its exact parameters are extremely subjective, but a conviction would, I feel, be "aided" with the proof of intent.
I would suspect in a clear cut case, that we would both agree on, Like real sex on stage with an adult, rather than just suggesting masturbation, proving intent would not be necessary.
would you agree on the last statement.