Originally posted by princeoforangeOne factor that continually gets ignored (by both sides, for some reason) in the great "Decriminalisation of Marijuana" debate is this... Why was marijuana criminalised in the first place?
Drug users don't only harm themselves, they harm others, because drugs affect your perception in various ways. I know there are arguments for the legalisation of drugs, but I am a sceptic.
Surely, it is absolutely impossible to debate anything, if nobody knows why it happened in the first place?
D
Originally posted by RagnorakGood point.
One factor that continually gets ignored (by both sides, for some reason) in the great "Decriminalisation of Marijuana" debate is this... Why was marijuana criminalised in the first place?
Surely, it is absolutely impossible to debate anything, if nobody knows why it happened in the first place?
D
It's rather bizarre that you can outlaw consuming a naturally occurring plant :/
Originally posted by RagnorakThese are question, I don't know the answers for sure.
Absolutely 100% wrong!
If alcohol was criminalised, and to buy it, you had to interact with shady characters pushing harder drugs, then alcohol would become "a gateway drug".
D
Do the majority of cannabis users end up on heroin and if not why not.
Has hard drug usage in the Netherlands decreased since it was legalised?
Did prohibition lead to drug usage beyond cocaine type substances.
It may be that some people do, in fact, try harder stuff because the dealer pushes it but in my experience, the majority of people who up the level from the weed are introduced to it the same way people are introduced to cannabis now.
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Originally posted by WheelyThere is a major flaw in the gateway drug idea. Why do you think it was propaganized to be illegal in the first place? In the thirties, a true world class ashole named Anslinger had a hardon against puerto ricans and jazz musicians, both coming from the devil according to him. So being in high office he pushed for and got grass to be criminalized. But here is the real problem with the gateway concept:
I'm not sure that makes any difference. I'm ambivalent on the cannabis issue and probably lean towards it being legalised but I don't think this particular argument works.
People who move on to harder drugs are still going to do that. Hard drugs have a culture and you're not part of it if you can nip down the road to the local coffee shop and have a qu pushing you up the line to the point where all the excitement has gone but its too late.
The REAL gateway drug is not weed but TOBACCO. Think about it. What is more addictive than heroin but legal? Why do you think its been legal for so many centuries when it is known not to like reduce your memory but to frigging KILL you with a half million deaths per year in the US alone. Tell me how many people have been killed by grass? If you compare the amount of people killed by driving drunk vs the amount of people driving while stoned, its not even close enough to make a mark on a graph. So its a major hypocritical stance of the US government in the first place that keeps up the pretention of weed as a gateway drug. The hypocrites who made these laws and continue to follow the official dogma (look at the latest FDA ruling on medical marijuana for instance) would rather have millions of people in jail for having a couple of OZ of grass than have to admit they were not only wrong but in the pockets of the tobacco and alcohol companies.
Originally posted by WheelyI knew the reasons, but I was wondering if other people knew that pretty much the only reason it was made illegal in the first place was because of racism, bigotry and the power tripping of Anslinger.
Here's a link
http://www.idmu.co.uk/historical.htm
Here are some choice quotes from the man responsible for marijuana being illegalised in most countries without any debate or science, just pure lies and fear mongering...
"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others."
"...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races."
"Marijuana is an addictive drug which produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death."
"Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men."
"Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing"
"You smoke a joint and you're likely to kill your brother."
"Marijuana is the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind."
D
Originally posted by Ragnorakhehe, beat you to it!
I knew the reasons, but I was wondering if other people knew that pretty much the only reason it was made illegal in the first place was because of racism, bigotry and the power tripping of Anslinger.
Here are some choice quotes from the man responsible for marijuana being illegalised in most countries without any debate or science, just pure lies and fe ...[text shortened]...
"Marijuana is the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind."
D
Originally posted by RagnorakNice attitude.
I knew the reasons, but I was wondering if other people knew that pretty much the only reason it was made illegal in the first place was because of racism, bigotry and the power tripping of Anslinger.
Here are some choice quotes from the man responsible for marijuana being illegalised in most countries without any debate or science, just pure lies and fe ...[text shortened]...
"Marijuana is the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind."
D
Sounds like some of the people posting in these forums recently.
Originally posted by WheelyI'm not sure what your position is. Initially, in your post to Redmike, it seemed like you were saying that cannabis users will still move onto harder drugs. Now, I don't know what your position is.
These are question, I don't know the answers for sure.
Do the majority of cannabis users end up on heroin and if not why not.
Has hard drug usage in the Netherlands decreased since it was legalised?
Did prohibition lead to drug usage beyond cocaine type substances.
It may be that some people do, in fact, try harder stuff because the dealer pushes ...[text shortened]... he level from the weed are introduced to it the same way people are introduced to cannabis now.
Re cannabis and heroin: The fact that when questioned what the first drug they tried was, every heroin user will answer marijuana, therefore giving "evidence" of the fact that marijuana is a gateway drug to Heroin. In Fact, in 99.99% of cases, a heroin addicts first drug would have been either tobacco or alcohol.
Has hard drug usage in Holland decreased since marijuana was decriminalised? I don't know, but I do know that there is a lot of hard drugs in Amsterdam. But think about it this way... Holland attracts people from all over the world due to its drugs policy. If the rest of the world had the same policies, then there wouldn't be the magnetic effect that is pretty evident in Holland. I also know that most dutch people stop smoking cannabis after their teens.
Prohibition may not have led onto cocaine usage, but it did lead people to become involved in the criminality of the day.
D
Originally posted by sonhouseThere was a slight relaxation of the anti-marijuana laws in the pre-Nixon days in America. What brought about this relaxation? The fact that a lot of the people going to prison (for life at the time) were white middle class children. Before that, it was almost exclusively blacks and hispanics who were going to prison, and therefore the law was right.
The hypocrites who made these laws and continue to follow the official dogma (look at the latest FDA ruling on medical marijuana for instance) would rather have millions of people in jail for having a couple of OZ of grass than have to admit they were not only wrong but in the pockets of the tobacco and alcohol companies.
Once the lawmakers realised that they were putting their own kids in jail, they relaxed the law. Nixon reversed that, but sidestepped the problem through the use of institutional racism in the police force, which exists to this day. A higher percentage of white people carry small amounts of Mary Jane than black people, but if you don't search them, then you can't arrest them.
D
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Originally posted by Wheely"The Egyptian delegate denounced 'Hashism' which he said caused from 30-60 per cent of the insanity in his country. 'In support of this contention... there are three times as many cases of mental alienation among men as among women, and it is an established fact that men are much more addicted to hashish than women'. Hashish addicts, he said, were regarded as useless derelicts. 'His eye is wild and the expression of his face is stupid. He is silent; has no muscular power; suffers from physical ailments, heart troubles, digestive troubles etc; his intellectual faculties gradually weaken and the whole organism decays. The addict very frequently becomes neurasthenic and eventually insane."
Here's a link
http://www.idmu.co.uk/historical.htm
http://www.idmu.co.uk/historical.htm
"Very heavy use of cannabis could be a cause of psychosis, according to a leading psychiatrist who believes that society should think carefully about the potential consequences of its increasing use.
Robin Murray, professor of psychiatry at the Institute of Psychiatry and consultant psychiatrist at the Maudsley hospital in London, says that in the last 18 months, there has been increasing evidence that cannabis causes serious mental illness."
http://society.guardian.co.uk/drugsandalcohol/story/0,8150,990171,00.html
"Cannabis mental health risks 'must be taught'
He said that four studies published in the last two years found that teenagers who used cannabis were up to seven times more likely to develop a psychotic mental illness such as schizophrenia or manic depression.
http://society.guardian.co.uk/drugsandalcohol/story/0,8150,1117959,00.html
Cannabis: what teenagers need to know
In particular, the programme will look at the growing evidence of links between cannabis and psychotic illness in young people.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4082196.stm
Originally posted by princeoforangeSo a 16 year old snot nosed kid on an isolated island in Scotland knows all about the cultural state of other countries. Of course, being the world traveller you must be, you have many enlightining stories of how you were robbed, kidnapped, ripped off, got bad diseases and such from your many trips to Mexico.
Enlightened? Just because Mexico (who, by the way are not an enlightened country) do it, doesn't mean others need to do it too.
Let me tell you a small personal story from a REAL trip to Mexico:
When I was about 15 YO, my family took a trip to Mexico, Rosarita Beach on Baja. So we are down there trying to get close to the beach and our car gets totally bogged down in the sand. Well in about two minutes this really great little family comes streaming out of their little house and they dug out the car in short order, we didn't have so much as a tin can with us, smiles all around, and my dad offered them 20 bucks or thereabouts but they refused, saying no, it was our pleasure, they went back inside and we went off. had e great time and went home. Pretty unenlightened behaviour, don't you think?
My son married a Mexican girl from Cancun, a very beautiful and generous soul, her family is just as nice. So there are americans with direct ties to Mexico, and of course, Mexican food is so unenlightened also, who in their right mind can stand avocados, guocamole or taco's, or Fajita's. Such disgusting fare, eh?