@AverageJoe1 saidIt’s only been the phrase tossed around in certain reporting. I can probably guess where. I’ve never seen it in the reporting I follow.
Of course it is not, that has been the phrase that has been tossed around regarding the reporting thereof. Sorry I didn’t say it exactly right, and go into the whys and wherefores. I do like saying that Trump kicked China out of there, and again, sometimes there’s nothing to discuss. You fellas need to look more ahead
Anyway, This is why I am right only 96% of the time
@lstcyr saidNot everything I hear, or see, or figure out, means that there is a citation of link to provide you with the details. There are very few actual studies which have been done here because welfare fraud is difficult to prove. People have commented that there are loopholes in the system which allow for rampant fraud which can not be tracked.
@Rajk999 And where would you have “heard” about this 50% fraud? I’d appreciate some citations.
One of the most blatant of these is medical fraud prepertrated by the US insurance providers in conjunction with doctors and hospitals. The US govt pays for some medical care to the tune of 10 to 20 times the normal cost in other developed countries. This is public knowledge. Something like insulin costs someone in Spain $9, while in the US it is over $100. This is a form of welfare fraud which comes out of taxpayer $$.
Here are some examples of welfare fraud I got out of CoPilot:
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SNAP
- Corrupt retailers ringing up fake sales, or coordinating with recipients.
- Small corner stores with high volumes of small transactions spread over many cards.
Medicaid provider billing
Clinics, home‑health agencies, pharmacies, or DME suppliers billing for services not rendered, upcoding, or using ghost patients.
This is widely regarded as one of the most fraud‑prone domains because of complex billing codes and huge claim volumes, so only a fraction of suspicious patterns are ever investigated.
Housing assistance (public housing, vouchers)
Under‑reported income or assets, unreported household members, or continued collection of benefits after a qualifying person moves or dies.
Fraud can persist for years if housing authorities lack good data‑matching and periodic verification.
Tax‑linked welfare (Earned Income Tax Credit, refundable Child Tax Credit)
Misreporting income, dependents, or filing status, sometimes linked to identity theft.
These programs have relatively high “improper payment” rates; a portion of that is believed to be intentional misrepresentation that is never criminally prosecuted.
Identity‑based schemes across programs
Stolen or fabricated identities used to draw multiple benefits (SNAP, Medicaid, housing, cash assistance) at once.
Because each program may have its own database and eligibility process, cross‑program fraud can slip through if data are not integrated.
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@sh76 saidI think we've had this debate before.
The government always sucks and keeping its prices low, simply because nobody negotiating on behalf of the government *really* cares that much about keeping prices down. Why should they? It's not their money.
But paying huge amounts of money to Lockheed Martin is also giving money to Americans, not much different than welfare spending. At least the Lockheed Martin employees a ...[text shortened]... nd thus a bargain at 10 times the price, or it's not, and it's a terrible idea even if it were free.
It is important to recognize that war and military spending aren't equivalent. In order to fund WW2, our government raised money for it. Top marginal tax rates went to 92% (Congress had to pass the law) and that's when they started automatically withholding income from paychecks. After WW2, they cut the military budget way down by almost 90%.
We don't do either of those things anymore. No one raises money for war, and no one does the math to determine how much "war" we should do in any given budget. It's just very high military spending all the time. It always needs more, even if the Pentagon isn't asking for it.
If economic stimulus is seen as an important feature of military spending, simply because it employs people and boosts local economies, then there are numerous better options to accomplish this goal than building overpriced Patriot missiles. Infrastructure, energy, health care, etc. all of those things accomplish the same goal of economic stimulus and employment, and each of these things produce things which are more useful practically for health and happiness than giving it all to Lockheed's CEO.
Blank checks to the Pentagon are not necessary to maintain military readiness.
@Rajk999 saidAIn't gonna let you throw around fake numbers.
I heard the US has a problem with welfare, and about 50% of it is fraudulent. Welfare costs the taxpayer about $1.5 Trillion. So there you go. Just reduce the corruption in welfare and you get more than enough to finance the war.
As for relying on budget weapons and military equipment made by foreign firms, only a total fool will suggest such a ridiculous idea.
Corruption is bad. Water is wet. We all agree.
Regarding the topic of this thread, you miss the one key feature that distinguishes military spending from all the rest of the spending we do. Accountability.
Here's a real number. The US Department of War cannot account for 63% of its assets. A huge chunk of the budget every year has no public record of where it goes, and there is no person whose job it is to make sure that money is spent on the best interests of America. Do you think we oughta know where this stuff is? So yes, there's fraud in other areas of government and we know about the fraud because of accounting.
But if you're a fraudster, I know the chunk of money that you should be going after. It's at the Pentagon in no-bid contracts and mercenary support, and if you know the right people there's a pallet with $40 billion on it sitting in the Iraqi desert somewhere that you can just pick up.
@Rajk999 said
Not everything I hear, or see, or figure out, means that there is a citation of link to provide you with the details. There are very few actual studies which have been done here because welfare fraud is difficult to prove. People have commented that there are loopholes in the system which allow for rampant fraud which can not be tracked.
One of the most blatant of these ...[text shortened]... oss‑program fraud can slip through if data are not integrated.
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The US govt pays for some medical care to the tune of 10 to 20 times the normal cost in other developed countries.
This is the wrong comparison. Within the US, the US government pays out far less for the same care through Medicare and Medicaid than private insurance pays.
As for the rest of your list, these are examples of fraudsters that have been caught. But the seeming lack of fraud in the Pentagon isn't because it doesn't exist it is because no one watching.
@wildgrass saidI don't think we're really disagreeing, though the 92% tax rate wasn't paid by people in real life.
I think we've had this debate before.
It is important to recognize that war and military spending aren't equivalent. In order to fund WW2, our government raised money for it. Top marginal tax rates went to 92% (Congress had to pass the law) and that's when they started automatically withholding income from paychecks. After WW2, they cut the military budget way down by al ...[text shortened]... to Lockheed's CEO.
Blank checks to the Pentagon are not necessary to maintain military readiness.
I'm not saying military funding is efficient stimulus in itself, but I'm saying that it's not like flushing money down the toilet.
As for what we do spend on the military, I'm sure corners could be cut here and there, but the US has done a pretty darn good job of maintaining a kick-ass military for when we have decided to use it. That we got bogged down in the Iraq quagmire was merely because we overrated the Iraqi people's desire for Western-style democracy.
As for this war, I have no idea whether it's possible to accomplish a regime change without putting tens of thousands of boots on the ground (which I would not be in favor of). But if we can largely take out Iran's offensive capabilities for a few years and stop the IRGC's ability to spread their poisonous ideology by force, it will be worth the hardware and the Lockheed Martin orders.
@sh76 saidAnd a few hundred school kids massacred to insure even greater Israeli military supremacy in the region is cheap, too!
I don't think we're really disagreeing, though the 92% tax rate wasn't paid by people in real life.
I'm not saying military funding is efficient stimulus in itself, but I'm saying that it's not like flushing money down the toilet.
As for what we do spend on the military, I'm sure corners could be cut here and there, but the US has done a pretty darn good job of maintaining ...[text shortened]... ead their poisonous ideology by force, it will be worth the hardware and the Lockheed Martin orders.
@Rajk999 So, from your response, I'm guessing that you are guessing at how much fraud there is in welfare. Not to nitpick but providing a list of ways to defraud the government doesn't seem to support your 50% argument. I could list numerous ways to murder someone but that doesn't mean that I can state that 50% of the country are murderers.
@Rajk999 And, by the way, CoPilot is "Copilot AI is generally considered accurate for tasks like lead generation and outreach, but it may have some technical issues and a learning curve that can affect its performance. Users often find it effective for automating and streamlining sales processes, though results can vary based on the specific use case." From Wikipedia.
I'm not seeing much here that suggests CoPilot's accuracy with determining fraud in government operations. Just a thought.
@Rajk999 saidOnce again for the slow ones, Obama returned money that belonged to Iran.
Yeah, that reminds me of how stupid some of your other presidents were. Obama and the other weakling presidents tried to bribe these Islamic monsters. Trump is the opposite .. behave yourself or we will bomb the $$hitt out of you.
Go Trump. Finish the bastards.
Trump couldn't do that, because he wants ALL the money for himself.
Funny (not really) how you align yourself with a mass murderer.
@Mott-The-Hoople saidAnd the biggest black hole of fraud in modern history.
This system has produced the strongest military in the world…yeah let’s change it said the liberal democrat
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@sh76 saidI don't think we're disagreeing either. Its not the percent tax rate for WW2, it's the means for going to war, and the quick reversal in war funding after it was over. There used to be a self-correcting requirement for collective "buy in" to spend money on war. If that system still existed, where voters chose politicians who aligned with "big military, requiring big taxes" or "small military, allowing small taxes", I would bet that we would have a much smaller military.
I don't think we're really disagreeing, though the 92% tax rate wasn't paid by people in real life.
I'm not saying military funding is efficient stimulus in itself, but I'm saying that it's not like flushing money down the toilet.
As for what we do spend on the military, I'm sure corners could be cut here and there, but the US has done a pretty darn good job of maintaining ...[text shortened]... ead their poisonous ideology by force, it will be worth the hardware and the Lockheed Martin orders.
We need some small level of budget considerations for the Pentagon. I'm not talking about "corner cutting" I'm talking about cost cutting. These are not the same. A Ferrari 250 and a Honda Civic stuck in traffic are getting to work at the same time.
@wildgrass saidPay for education, health and infrastructure and tell the sellers of death to go fvck themselves.
What mechanism can stop it?
@lstcyr saidYes, its called an educated guess, based on what I read and there are tons of articles on welfare and medical fraud in the US particularly from the insurance companies and hospitals. It runs into the billions of US$$$.
@Rajk999 So, from your response, I'm guessing that you are guessing at how much fraud there is in welfare. Not to nitpick but providing a list of ways to defraud the government doesn't seem to support your 50% argument. I could list numerous ways to murder someone but that doesn't mean that I can state that 50% of the country are murderers.
So what is your educated guess?