@averagejoe1 saidAgain I am reminded of Ayn Rand's fictional character Francisco D'Anconia and how he deliberately defrauded his investors because he believed they got their money by illegitimate means. It is implied that this is a heroic act in the book.
Debating you requires tag-team, so allow me to provide that which you asked for. Stock exchange, for instance, is quite specific.
https://helpfulprofessor.com/capitalism-examples/
You could have googled this yourself? My granny pulled it up for me.
@soothfast saidGood question. To me, these neighborhoods are war zones. It is difficult to have a meeting with 10 generals and come up with answer to revise the culture of Chicago where this is a way of life. So, you would have to get a bus like TX does, and put people on that are trying to escape, and dump them all in the neighborhood of the mayor of Chicago, bless him.
So what's your fucking solution?
Then whoever is left there, wall them off and let them kill each other. The only other solution is to populate the area with army patrols, but darn it, we need them at the border.
Funny you ask a question about a solution to a few streets in Chicago, when there is mortal hell at the border. Might I ask you your solution there? Maybe a sign on the mexican side that says we have machine guns and you will not be allowed in here? We will shoot you?
@athousandyoung saidReaad it 40 yrs ago, don't remember, but not likely that she would approve of fraud.
Again I am reminded of Ayn Rand's fictional character Francisco D'Anconia and how he deliberately defrauded his investors because he believed they got their money by illegitimate means. It is implied that this is a heroic act in the book.
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@averagejoe1 said
Good question. To me, these neighborhoods are war zones. It is difficult to have a meeting with 10 generals and come up with answer to revise the culture of Chicago where this is a way of life. So, you would have to get a bus like TX does, and put people on that are trying to escape, and dump them all in the neighborhood of the mayor of Chicago, bless him.
Then who ...[text shortened]... mexican side that says we have machine guns and you will not be allowed in here? We will shoot you?
The only other solution is to populate the area with army patrols, but darn it, we need them at the border.
I'd say you've got to be kidding me, but then I remembered with whom I'm talking. Permanent martial law is not a solution in any democracy that wants to live long.
To broaden your horizons, I suggest you think hard about what solutions you'd like to see if you were growing up in an inner city. Most people living in an inner city are just trying to get by in life, and have no criminal record. Garrisoning stormtroopers in your neighborhood when there are no places to buy food, you might realize, is not a solution. It will not break the feedback loop of poverty, crime, and decay.
There is no shortage of war zones in the world where there's a soldier on every street corner, and the neighborhoods are still war zones.
So, yeah, think harder.
@athousandyoung saidMarkets, car park markets, dirt lot markets, etc. People who want to sell and people that want to buy what's for sale, the voluntary exchange of value for value the recognition of property rights usually occurring without any state bureaurat control freak meddling. The black market, plumbers, tradesmen doing work under the table free from interference. Same again each party recognises the others right to their property. No one is forced to purchase services or products they don't want for a price not agreed upon i.e. the goobermint.Capitalism in it's purest form exists all over the world
Got any specifics?
No reputable definition of capitalism defines a minimum value on a trade. Of course you'd prefer not to define terms.
@wajoma saidThat’s anarchism not capitalism.
Markets, car park markets, dirt lot markets, etc. People who want to sell and people that want to buy what's for sale, the voluntary exchange of value for value the recognition of property rights usually occurring without any state bureaurat control freak meddling. The black market, plumbers, tradesmen doing work under the table free from interference. Same again each party ...[text shortened]... nition of capitalism defines a minimum value on a trade. Of course you'd prefer not to define terms.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalism.asp
Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or businesses own capital goods. At the same time, business owners (capitalists) employ workers (labor) who receive only wages; labor doesn't own the means of production but instead uses them on behalf of the owners of capital.
Your examples do not describe a separation between owners and workers as described above.
People have been trading at local markets for thousands of years before capitalism came to be.
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@wajoma saidI assume building codes would go out the window in your cowboy libertarian utopia. Wouldn't want those black market carpenters, plumbers, and electricians to have to hassle with those, right?
Markets, car park markets, dirt lot markets, etc. People who want to sell and people that want to buy what's for sale, the voluntary exchange of value for value the recognition of property rights usually occurring without any state bureaurat control freak meddling. The black market, plumbers, tradesmen doing work under the table free from interference. Same again each party ...[text shortened]... nition of capitalism defines a minimum value on a trade. Of course you'd prefer not to define terms.
In any case, open-air markets on dirt lots are not a substitute for a supermarket.
@soothfast saidHow bout you think. Thousand has no answer, and I don't since I am not educated in assesing crime-ridden neighborhoods. So my answer is to station police on every corner,, and stop crime like has been done for hundreds of years. I dont know much past that.
The only other solution is to populate the area with army patrols, but darn it, we need them at the border.
I'd say you've got to be kidding me, but then I remembered with whom I'm talking. Permanent martial law is not a solution in any democracy that wants to live long.
To broaden your horizons, I suggest you think hard about what solutions you'd ...[text shortened]... dier on every street corner, and the neighborhoods are still war zones.
So, yeah, think harder.
I know business, though, and would move my business the hell out of there. Is tht maybe the answer thousand is looking for?
The residents should move away, but sometimes there are hindrances, like having had too many children, such as that. No good answers. Do you think the government should support them? And the immigrants? And pay off the loans of college graduates? Just askin.
@athousandyoung saidPeople were breathing before there was a name for it.
That’s anarchism not capitalism.
[quote] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalism.asp
Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or businesses own capital goods. At the same time, business owners (capitalists) employ workers (labor) who receive only wages; labor doesn't own the means of production but instead uses them on behalf of the ...[text shortened]... e.
People have been trading at local markets for thousands of years before capitalism came to be.
The 'labor' in your not so reputable definition (haha, how many did you go through before you found this one) own themselves, they own their time, both of which can be considered the means of production, the 'labor' in your definition are capitalists.
@soothfast saidThere are millions of homes built outside goobermint, interfering, expensive regulation.
I assume building codes would go out the window in your cowboy libertarian utopia. Wouldn't want those black market carpenters, plumbers, and electricians to have to hassle with those, right?
In any case, open-air markets on dirt lots are not a substitute for a supermarket.
The libertarian solution: If you want your house built to code you employ and pay for the services of a building inspector. If you can't afford a house built to code then build your shack. For many the choice is that or no home. soothfast bamboozle would like everyone not living in a house built to code to be evicted adding untold millions to the worlds homeless and assuredly the death of many of them, how easily soothfast bamboozler sacrifices other people's lives. Three cheers for soothfast bamboozle.
@averagejoe1 saidThis sure is a lot of ASCII skat just to say you've no idea what to do about inner city problems. Best I can ascertain, your solution is to simply turn inner cities into de facto concentration camps and let them rot utterly.
How bout you think. Thousand has no answer, and I don't since I am not educated in assesing crime-ridden neighborhoods. So my answer is to station police on every corner,, and stop crime like has been done for hundreds of years. I dont know much past that.
I know business, though, and would move my business the hell out of there. Is tht maybe the answer thousand ...[text shortened]... should support them? And the immigrants? And pay off the loans of college graduates? Just askin.
There are many reasons why comparatively young US cities have decayed since the mid-20th century whilst centuries-old European cities continue to flourish. Before making your usual ignorant pronouncements about what caused the problem or how to fix it, you might want to brush up on the complex historical, social, economic, and political dynamics underlying the process. Those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.
@wajoma saidSounds like your arguing with a different Soothfast.
There are millions of homes built outside goobermint, interfering, expensive regulation.
The libertarian solution: If you want your house built to code you employ and pay for the services of a building inspector. If you can't afford a house built to code then build your shack. For many the choice is that or no home. soothfast bamboozle would like everyone not living in a ...[text shortened]... easily soothfast bamboozler sacrifices other people's lives. Three cheers for soothfast bamboozle.
I'll leave you to it, then.
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@soothfast saidass kicked
Sounds like your arguing with a different Soothfast.
I'll leave you to it, then.
Edit: SB said: "I assume building codes would go out the window in your cowboy libertarian utopia."
For millions of people they are already out the window and they wouldn't have a home to live in if they were forced to follow the, at times: over the top, at other times insufficient meddling of goobermint busybodies. Black market tradesmen are usually referred by word of mouth, eg, this guy's good but expensive, this guys cheap but rough.
Soothfast goes bye, byyyyeeeeeee.
@soothfast saidI’m not going to reread my posts, but I do not remember getting into why the problems happen in those places… Like I said, that is not my area of expertise. These people generally ruin their own neighborhoods, and liberal governments tell cops just to leave them alone and let them do what they do and if they get caught to turn them loose. That is about all I know about everything in this regard. They live their lives, I live mine. And here you sit telling me to come up with a solution and you don’t seem to have one.
This sure is a lot of ASCII skat just to say you've no idea what to do about inner city problems. Best I can ascertain, your solution is to simply turn inner cities into de facto concentration camps and let them rot utterly.
There are many reasons why comparatively young US cities have decayed since the mid-20th century whilst centuries-old European cities con ...[text shortened]... , and political dynamics underlying the process. Those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.
@AverageJoe1
Let's back up a few clicks. Thousand posted this.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalism.asp
Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or businesses own capital goods. At the same time, business owners (capitalists) employ workers (labor) who receive only wages; labor doesn't own the means of production but instead uses them on behalf of the owners of capital.
What are you saying, Thousand, by posting this. It is a fact, that business owners, which Bill Jones could be, own a business. The business owner, Bill Jones, employs a laborer, who receives 'ONLY' wages. Why the word 'only'. What else would he receive, Thousand? Are you trying to throw us off? That is what is paid and what is earned. Whew.
OK, next sentence. He says that the worker, which person could be a laborer, or an office clerk, does not 'own the means of production'. How could he, and why would he....., The second sentence above says he EMPLOYS them. You are thus saying they are employees of the man who owns the business. Am I correct so far?:
But then, your curious phrase thereafter (after we all must agree to the foregoing) is that the laborer 'uses them (?) on behalf of the owners of capital'".
I think we all understand the logic, common sense and rationale up to that last sentence about 'on behalf'. Please explain that, and tie it into the preceding part of the post.