@sh76 saidI won't waste time arguing about the COVID response with you again, but most agreed with it at the time and governors like Whitmer most associated with such policies won re-election as did almost all Democratic Senators in the swing States.
===A lot of beliefs held by uneducated white folks who are the backbone of Trump's support are "backward and antiquated" as this Forum shows almost every day.===
Possibly, but that backbone is maybe 20-25% of the electorate. Getting the rest of the way to victory in a general election is due to Democratic ineptness in handling covid, inflation, and identity politics.
Still waiting for an answer to my question regarding any difference in whatever you consider "identity politics" during 2021-2024 and Democratic policies prior to that period.
Democratic messaging on inflation was poor, but it's interesting that even a reasonably sophisticated moderate like yourself erroneously believes that fairly modest spending packages after COVID caused it rather than it being the world wide phenomenon it was ( and largely fallen back to historically low levels long before the election).
@sh76 said
===You know what theocracy means, don't you? Punishing people for thought-crime. The Evangelical platform would criminalise failure to believe in God (and they define which god).===
Source?
There is a Christian nationalist agenda abroad in the land, and Trump (although no model Christian himself) is its facilitator.
quote
If this movement gets everything it wants, what will this country look like?
There will be no meaningful religious liberty. There will be essentially a two-tier society between real Americans—those who buy into this, or pretend to — and then the rest of Americans. If you’re a person of no faith or a Muslim or anybody deemed not a true Christian, you will have a place, but you will not have a voice. The laws will be rewritten across the board. Rights as we understand them will cease to exist and instead, we’ll have the framework of biblical law.
end quote
source:
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/12/us/white-christian-nationalism-du-mez-cec/index.html
@moonbus saidIt is THEIR brand of Christianity that would be the state religion, not say Catholicism or Mormonism or Pentecostal or Lutheran, just THEIR definition of whatever the hell religion they want to call it.
[youtube]AI6SP70Zprs[/youtube]
There is a Christian nationalist agenda abroad in the land, and Trump (although no model Christian himself) is its facilitator.
quote
If this movement gets everything it wants, what will this country look like?
There will be no meaningful religious liberty. There will be essentially a two-tier society between real Americans—those ...[text shortened]...
source:
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/12/us/white-christian-nationalism-du-mez-cec/index.html
I imagine atheists would be persecuted the most.
I would be hung from a tree for saying ALL religions are man made, no god in sight.
@sonhouse
You certainly would not be able to hold public office or even become a notary.
https://theconversation.com/why-it-matters-that-7-states-still-have-bans-on-atheists-holding-office-161069
quote
Bans on atheists and ministers are now unconstitutional due to Supreme Court rulings in 1961 and 1978. Tennessee is the last state to maintain an unenforceable ban on ministers in their Constitutions, while seven states still have their unconstitutional bans on atheists.
Although unenforceable, the bans periodically impede atheists wanting to hold public office. In 1992, Herb Silverman, an atheist activist and math professor, was denied a position as a notary public because of a ban in South Carolina. He had to sue the state before he could hold the position.
Meanwhile in 2009, Cecil Bothwell, a local Democratic candidate, won his city counsel race in Asheville, North Carolina – but had to fight critics who claimed he was ineligible on account of his atheism.
These attacks continued for years after Bothwell was elected. H.K. Edgerton, a Black Confederate activist and one of Bothwell’s staunchest critics, complained in 2014 that the council had “placed itself above the law for two terms with Cecil Bothwell sitting there passing rules and regulations and dictating law unlawfully.”
David Morgan, editor of the Asheville Tribune, claimed his criticism of Bothwell was about upholding the state constitution, arguing “If you don’t like it, amend it and take out that clause.”
Atheists have tried to do just that. But politicians show little interest in removing the bans on atheists that exist in state constitutions. As Todd Stiefel, an atheist activist, notes: “If it was on the books that Jews couldn’t hold public office, or that African Americans or women couldn’t vote, that would be a no-brainer. You’d have politicians falling all over themselves to try to get it repealed. Even if it was still unenforceable, it would still be disgraceful and be removed. So why are we different?”
These anti-atheist clauses and the failure to remove them reflect a phenomenon I call “theistnormativity,” which is the normalization of the belief in God as being tied to good and moral citizenship.
To many Americans, beliefs in God and Americanism has become synonymous. A 2015 survey found that 69% of respondents thought it was important to believe in God to be “truly American.”
While there is no ban on being an atheist in the United States, atheists have long been framed as un-American. When Democratic Representative Louis Rabaut proposed adding “under God” to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954, he argued that an “atheistic American” is a “contradiction in terms.”
Even President Barack Obama simply acknowledging the existence of “nonbelievers” in his 2009 inaugural address led critics to question whether the acknowledgment was “offensive” and could lead to dangerous misunderstandings about “our true nature as a nation.”
end quote
Bottom line: Trump's Big Beautiful Bill is only a prelude. Shutting down courts' jurisdiction to hold the Executive Branch accountable to the Constitution is merely clearing a path for the real agenda to go forward. There is worse to come.
PS While "Christian nationalism" and "White supremacy" are not synonyms, they refer in fact to more or less co-extensive groups in the population.
@no1marauder saidFirst, the American economy has an enormous influence over the world.
I won't waste time arguing about the COVID response with you again, but most agreed with it at the time and governors like Whitmer most associated with such policies won re-election as did almost all Democratic Senators in the swing States.
Still waiting for an answer to my question regarding any difference in whatever you consider "identity politics" during 2021-2024 ...[text shortened]... de phenomenon it was ( and largely fallen back to historically low levels long before the election).
Aside from that, in 2021, the government should have been *fighting* inflationary pressures from the 2020 stimulus packages. Even assuming the 2021 stimulus was "moderate" (it's all relative, I guess), any stimulus package in 2021 was the opposite of what should have been happening.
It was a worldwide phenomenon because governments all over the world were irresponsible. That doesn't excuse ours.
As for Dems and DEI, let's start here:
https://democrats.org/dei-resources-page/
On behalf of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), we are proud to publish and grow our 2022 Diverse Vendor Directory. Diversity, equity, and inclusion, are important values to the Democratic Party. We believe that diverse suppliers strengthen our mission to create an inclusive environment supporting the people and communities that we impact.
...
All businesses interested in joining the directory are encouraged to apply, if you are a minority-, women-, LGBT-, disabled-, veteran-owned business, or a union-affiliated business interested in providing products and services to the Democratic National Committee, we strongly encourage you to register for our directory.
The Democratic party officially endorsed preferential treatment for businesses, as long as they're not owned by white straight men.
@sh76 saidSince when does "all" not include white straight males? And I doubt one in a thousand US voters even knew of the existence of such a voluntary directory.
First, the American economy has an enormous influence over the world.
Aside from that, in 2021, the government should have been *fighting* inflationary pressures from the 2020 stimulus packages. Even assuming the 2021 stimulus was "moderate" (it's all relative, I guess), any stimulus package in 2021 was the opposite of what should have been happening.
It was a worldwide ph ...[text shortened]... endorsed preferential treatment for businesses, as long as they're not owned by white straight men.
The US economy in 2021 was hardly booming. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/empsit_02052021.pdfAnd different government policies hardly had any effect on the post-COVID inflation which was mostly caused by supply chain issues.https://www.brookings.edu/articles/covid-19-inflation-was-a-supply-shock/
@sh76 saidThis is a big post, but really the DEI "crap" once again? I will not defend whatever straw man you've decided DEI actually is or isn't. The problem is that conservatives and liberals are working with entirely different definitions of what it is and how it is rolled out in practice.
Forget "conservatives" or even Republicans for a second.
Do you not get how sickened most of us are by the identity politics that have set the tone of this government from mid-2020 through at least 2023 or 2024?
Whenever I bring it up, reasonable Democrats like you rarely defend it. Rather, you just say it's not such a big deal and minimize it as being less important than ...[text shortened]... e than half the people in the country think about this, then you're not yet on the road to recovery.
The real definition of DEI is an organizational framework to fairly treat everyone. I don't believe what you're being "BOMBARDED" with has anything to do with that definition. Ergo, conservative media has established a straw man to bash liberals, based on a term that they are not defining correctly.
A simple example of a DEI program. A graduate school admissions committee traditionally recognizes internships or volunteer work in a relevant area (let's say "lab science" ) in screening applications. However, rural applicants literally don't have access to these opportunities. A DEI initiative might add a scholarship opportunity on the condition that they admit someone rural, recognizing that there is merit in what activities these other applicants engaged in other than unpaid internships in a biotech lab. No one was cheated out of an educational opportunity. The admissions is fundamentally not merit-based because it uses admissions criteria completely outside the applicants ability to control. Subjective bias takes over to emphasize certain backgrounds.
Also, in the corporate world, DEI is extremely popular, proven to work to increases productivity. Of course there are exceptions and examples of where DEI has not worked, but it's not a bad thing fundamentally.
@wildgrass saidHow would this work in the NBA if 50% where white vrs the best candidates?
This is a big post, but really the DEI "crap" once again? I will not defend whatever straw man you've decided DEI actually is or isn't. The problem is that conservatives and liberals are working with entirely different definitions of what it is and how it is rolled out in practice.
The real definition of DEI is an organizational framework to fairly treat everyone. I don' ...[text shortened]... ere are exceptions and examples of where DEI has not worked, but it's not a bad thing fundamentally.
@wildgrass saidTrue, just like anything else, average or the best.
It would depend what type of team you were trying to build.
@sh76 said
First, the American economy has an enormous influence over the world.
Aside from that, in 2021, the government should have been *fighting* inflationary pressures from the 2020 stimulus packages. Even assuming the 2021 stimulus was "moderate" (it's all relative, I guess), any stimulus package in 2021 was the opposite of what should have been happening.
It was a worldwide ph ...[text shortened]... endorsed preferential treatment for businesses, as long as they're not owned by white straight men.
Aside from that, in 2021, the government should have been *fighting* inflationary pressures from the 2020 stimulus packages. Even assuming the 2021 stimulus was "moderate" (it's all relative, I guess), any stimulus package in 2021 was the opposite of what should have been happening.
Why were you placing sole responsibility on the guy who didn't steer the speeding ship away from the iceburg fast enough (unclear if this is even possible), but excusing the guy who clearly pointed the ship at the iceburg in the first place?
@mike69 said"The best" is inherently subjective and context-dependent. In sports, this is why so many people are so well compensated to debate these issues.
True, just like anything else, average or the best.
Harvard rejects thousands of applicants every year who have perfect SAT scores. Why? It certainly isn't because DEI.
Harvard would be an extremely boring place if everyone enrolled was the same.
@wildgrass saidWhy do you think my criticizing Biden somehow exonerates Trump?Aside from that, in 2021, the government should have been *fighting* inflationary pressures from the 2020 stimulus packages. Even assuming the 2021 stimulus was "moderate" (it's all relative, I guess), any stimulus package in 2021 was the opposite of what should have been happening.
Why were you placing sole responsibility on the guy who didn't steer the spe ...[text shortened]... even possible), but excusing the guy who clearly pointed the ship at the iceburg in the first place?
@sh76 saidYou wrote that Biden's actions led to years of runaway inflation. But in clarifying, it seems that your base criticism of Biden is that he did not act quickly enough to reverse the actions of a different politician (whom you do not name in the post).
Why do you think my criticizing Biden somehow exonerates Trump?
@wildgrass saidWhen hiring people the best qualified and able isn’t subjective. Do you want the most qualified best surgeon possible or the one hired because race or gender?
"The best" is inherently subjective and context-dependent. In sports, this is why so many people are so well compensated to debate these issues.
Harvard rejects thousands of applicants every year who have perfect SAT scores. Why? It certainly isn't because DEI.
Harvard would be an extremely boring place if everyone enrolled was the same.