26 Jun 09
1 edit
Originally posted by sh76I've met European apologists from the unrenconstructed pro-communist side who offer the same kind of old flannel as yours. You are not so different from each other. 'I reserve the right to not talk about the very inconvenient heart of what was wrong, but instead to obscure and distract from it by wittering on about something else that takes my fancy blah blah.'
Okay; so now I'm bound to incorporate, in every post, not only the entirety of the text of the author to which I'm responding, but also the thesis of the title of the thread. Is that about right?
Well, for future reference, regardless of what is implied by the thread title of what someone else posted, I hereby declare, specifically for your benefit:
[b]I h" it from the pages of history.
I hope this will serve to avoid further confusion.[/b]
G.W.Bush, a few years ago, talked of making a clean break with the past - no more blank cheque type propping up of regimes that act with impunity. No doubt the progress has been slow putting Bush's landmark declaration into effect, and the break is by no means 'clean' yet, but lo and behold there is this modicum of "developing freedom in the middle-east" in recent years.
And your little instinctive contribution to the smoke and mirrors? Ah yes, to chunter on about people's belief systems and traditions - not so dissimilar to generalissimo's crypto-fascist apologism and clunky insinuations that the peoples of the region were predisposed and preordained to be helpless victims of U.S. backed tyrannies anyway - ergo blame the victims, and dissemble about the power-based and control-of-natural-resources nature of the authoritarianism and the manipulation of "faith" to this end rather than its mere existence. So much easier to wax on about your lack of affinity and approval for other people's belief systems, eh? than to address the geopolitical atrocities that actually went down.
Yes, sh76, your latest post has served to avoid further confusion about your future pronouncements on this matter.
26 Jun 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadFreedom is actually a very scary thing when you've never lived in a functioning free society.
There is precious little evidence that 'it happens in all societies; it's just a matter of time.'. How much time may I ask?
One of the reasons why authoritarian regimes persist is that a lot of the people actually support them. People like the orderliness and predictability that they provide -- they fear chaos. A lot of people in Afghanistan actually welcomed the Taliban because it was better than the chaos of rival warlords constantly battling each other.
This is why I was hoping that the Iranian protesters would be able to conduct it in an obsessively orderly fashion.They needed to refrain from violence and mayhem, no matter how badly they were provoked. But then I saw videos of a crowd of people hurling rocks at police. Even all the shouting from the rooftops probably made the whole thing seem menacing to those who fear disorder.
26 Jun 09
Originally posted by FMFAs my favorite former President would say...
I've met European apologists from the unrenconstructed pro-communist side who offer the same kind of old flannel as yours. You are not so different from each other. 'I reserve the right to not talk about the very inconvenient heart of what was wrong, but instead to obscure and distract from it by wittering on about something else that takes my fancy blah blah.' ...[text shortened]... served to avoid further confusion about your future pronouncements on this matter.
There you go again... 😴
Or, as Scirabin would say
You #$X*&%&*#$@!#$$%
🙂
26 Jun 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadThe US liked the fact that Saddam was anti-communist, be he would have gotten into power with or without american support.
My understanding was that the US supported Saddam Husein and helped him become a dictator in preference to a democracy. I could be wrong.
27 Jun 09
Originally posted by sh76Your brush off will make the little rightwing munchkin posters - like generalissimo and utherpendragon - happy, indeed, perhaps they are the sneery sniggery audience you are aiming at. But the rest, centrists, neutrals, leftists, the politically literate, will wonder why you didn't field any of the points I made. But they'll know the answer.
As my favorite former President would say...
There you go again... 😴
27 Jun 09
Originally posted by FMFlast week you stated right wing conservatives were unpatriotic americans.Now you say they are politically illiterate.
Your brush off will make the little rightwing munchkin posters - like generalissimo and utherpendragon - happy, indeed, perhaps they are the sneery sniggery audience you are aiming at. But the rest, centrists, neutrals, leftists, the politically literate, will wonder why you didn't field any of the points I made. But they'll know the answer.
27 Jun 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonThere are plenty of politically literate right wingers. sh76 provides a good example.
last week you stated right wing conservatives were unpatriotic americans.Now you say they are politically illiterate.
People who resort to vulgar, ignorant disparagings or even hatespeech about their own elected leaders cannot, in my book, describe themselves as patriotic. It is paradoxical.
27 Jun 09
Originally posted by FMFYour not an american so you dont grasp it. It would be unpatriotic not to oppose "our leader" when he goes against our foundation.Not just obama,but bush is a fine example too
There are plenty of politically literate right wingers. sh76 provides a good example.
People who resort to vulgar, ignorant disparagings or even hatespeech about their own elected leaders cannot, in my book, describe themselves as patriotic. It is paradoxical.
27 Jun 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonBecause I am a native speaker of English. I think proficient speakers of English as a second or foreign language are every bit as entitled. Indeed, I would widen it out to non-English speakers who understand the word "patriotism" and who have good translations of the vitriolic invective that you squirt all over these threads.
How can YOU judge what a american patriot is and is not?!
27 Jun 09
Originally posted by FMFPatriotism is not the same from one system to the next.Totally differnt mind sets from american to european.It matters not if you share the same language
Because I am a native speaker of English. I think proficient speakers of English as a second or foreign language are every bit as entitled. Indeed, I would widen it out to non-English speakers who understand the word "patriotism" and who have good translations of the vitriolic invective that you squirt all over these threads.
27 Jun 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonYou strike me as a complete disgrace to the concept of "patriotism", although I personally do not hold "patriotism" up as a virtue for the most part. Hijack or use a different English word. Call yourself a fanatic or an extremist or a fundamentalist or some shade of fascist (if my diagnosis is correct) - like a crypto-fascist or a neo-fascist. Whatever. But don't cheapen, sully or destroy the meaning of the word "patriot" just because your fumbling hatred for certain things about your own country and countrymen make you incoherent and idiotic with rage.
Patriotism is not the same from one system to the next.Totally differnt mind sets from american to european.It matters not if you share the same language