@shavixmir saidThe worship of Jesus is a major point of conflict between Christians and Muslims. Muslims consider this idolatry.
BS.
Worshipped, admired, honored... whatever.
The basics are the same: Jesus is important in Islam as a prophet and as the prophet who leads the charge during the end times.
Hark! Those trumpets blaring.
1 edit
@shavixmir saidYou are missing the point. This is not a debate about the existence of God. That debate belongs in Spirituality. Here we are speaking about a conflict which is deeply rooted in religious beliefs. Failure to understand what some of the issues are is part of the reason why a solution is difficult to find. Maybe if you can let go of your hatred for religion [and Israel] you might be able to contribute to the discussion.
THE BIBLE IS A FAIRYTALE VERSION OF ONE PEOPLE’S HISTORY.
End of.
To think that anything written thousands of years ago, not based on observation is anything but wishing and seeking is absurd.
Listen to yourself debate with yourself here. It’s like someone claiming chocolate cream eggs will be the salvation of humanity’s calf problems.
@athousandyoung saidIm with Muslims on this point. Jesus did say to worship God, and to pray to God.
The worship of Jesus is a major point of conflict between Christians and Muslims. Muslims consider this idolatry.
@kingdavid403 saidThe permanently part is going on now.
Permanently.
Yes, as long as they kept their Covenant with God. That's why they were scattered for 2000 years; was that 2000 years not part of the permanently?
@rajk999 saidThis is a debate about the fulfillment or non-fulfillment of prophecies in a religious text. It obviously belongs in Spirituality.
You are missing the point. This is not a debate about the existence of God. That debate belongs in Spirituality. Here we are speaking about a conflict which is deeply rooted in religious beliefs. Failure to understand what some of the issues are is part of the reason why a solution is difficult to find. Maybe if you can let go of your hatred for religion [and Israel] you might be able to contribute to the discussion.
In fact, Spirituality was created specifically to keep such discussion of religious matters out of Debates. Extremist Christians were diverting thread after thread here, esp. on Middle East matters, into Biblical themes which supposedly were relevant to current day affairs. But most posters got sick of having debates on the Iraq War or Israel-Palestine being sidetracked into disagreements about who was Gog and who was Magog or many of the other excruciatingly boring "angels on the head of a pin" minutiae that evangelicals find soooooooooooooooooo essential to modern day geopolitics.
This thread should be moved to where it belongs.
@rajk999 saidIsrael today is nothing but a small sliver of the original Israel.
The permanently part is going on now.
Either way, there was no Israel from 69 AD until 1948 AD; Almost 2000 years. That's not permanently from 586 BC. Furthermore, look at what the Jews had to go through just to get a little sliver of Israel back. Yes, there are many things going on right now with Israel.
1 edit
@shavixmir saidNot only that, Muslims believe that Jesus will lead the rise from the dead at the end times.
Actually, they do. As a major prophet.
Although “worship” is a wrong term. Admire would be more suitable.
Not only that, muslims believe that Jesus will lead the rise from the dead at the end times.
Yes, another excellent point. They believe the same as Christians on the end times. "Jesus will reign for eternity from Israel!"
@shavixmir saidActually, they do. As a major prophet.
Actually, they do. As a major prophet.
Although “worship” is a wrong term. Admire would be more suitable.
Not only that, muslims believe that Jesus will lead the rise from the dead at the end times.
Although “worship” is a wrong term. Admire would be more suitable.
Yes, this was my point. Thank you.
@no1marauder saidWell by all means contact the mods and have it removed..
This is a debate about the fulfillment or non-fulfillment of prophecies in a religious text. It obviously belongs in Spirituality.
In fact, Spirituality was created specifically to keep such discussion of religious matters out of Debates. Extremist Christians were diverting thread after thread here, esp. on Middle East matters, into Biblical themes which supposedly wer ...[text shortened]... ooooooooooo essential to modern day geopolitics.
This thread should be moved to where it belongs.
1 edit
@kingdavid403 saidWell this interpretation makes no sense given the wording in the passage: The Jeremiah prophecy says certain things which do not fit into your interpretation that it refers ... to the return of the Israelites from exile in Babylon after 70 years; back to the destruction of their Jerusalem in 586 BC...
Israel today is nothing but a small sliver of the original Israel.
Either way, there was no Israel from 69 AD until 1948 AD; Almost 2000 years. That's not permanently from 586 BC. Furthermore, look at what the Jews had to go through just to get a little sliver of Israel back. Yes, there are many things going on right now with Israel.
- they went into Babylon as slaves or prisoners, and were not scattered all over the world in many countries ..I am going to gather the people from all the countries where I have scattered them
- the covenant God makes is stated as being eternal.. Not temporary. I will make an eternal covenant with them.
- This return to the Land of Palestine is permanent. All others before were temporary. { NO 2000 yrs is not permanent]
So your interpretation that Jeremiah refers to the Babylonian exile is not an fitting one.
2 edits
@rajk999 saidAre we not under a New Covenant?
Well this interpretation makes no sense given the wording in the passage: The Jeremiah prophecy says certain things which do not fit into your interpretation that it refers ... to the return of the Israelites from exile in Babylon after 70 years; back to the destruction of their Jerusalem in 586 BC...
- they went into Babylon as slaves or prisoners, and were not sc ...[text shortened]... anent]
So your interpretation that Jeremiah refers to the Babylonian exile is not an fitting one.
Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant when He shed His Blood for all.
we are now under a New Covenant with Jesus as Lord.
I'm certain you know of the Old Covenant and New. The Old Testament and New. That we are now NOT under the Law but under His grace for those who remain in Him.
I believe that you are correct, in that Israel will always be of Great importance to God; and that, Israel has much to do with God.
Neither the Jews nor Muslims believe in the divinity of Jesus; however; Muslims believe much in Jesus; the Jews have no belief in Jesus.
So again, to answer to your original point here:
Muslims not only bad and only Jews good.
They both worship the same God; and, they are both descendants of Abraham.
So your interpretation that Jeremiah refers to the Babylonian exile is not an fitting one.
Please show me where; and, use Scriptures please. You are not making sense here. Take your time now.
See ya tomorrow.
@kingdavid403 saidWell i explained why your interpretation does not fit the psssage already. Dont want to venture into a Spirituality discussion. If you want start the topic there.
Are we not under a New Covenant?
Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant when He shed His Blood for all.
we are now under a New Covenant with Jesus as Lord.
I'm certain you know of the Old Covenant and New. The Old Testament and New. That we are now NOT under the Law but under His grace for those who remain in Him.
I believe that you are correct, in that Israel wil ...[text shortened]... and, use Scriptures please. You are not making sense here. Take your time now.
See ya tomorrow.
1 edit
@rajk999 saidWell i explained why your interpretation does not fit the psssage already.
Well i explained why your interpretation does not fit the psssage already. Dont want to venture into a Spirituality discussion.
No. You spewed out jibberish that makes no sense.
Dont want to venture into a Spirituality discussion.
You went there along time ago in this thread. Hence the title of this (your), thread.
If you want start the topic there.
I will leave that up to you. Let me know if you do; as I usually do not go to that forum.
@athousandyoung saidAs I said, worship is the wrong term. They don’t worship mohammed either.
The worship of Jesus is a major point of conflict between Christians and Muslims. Muslims consider this idolatry.