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Originally posted by DelmerThe argument seems logical, if you have a bussiness where smoking is the order of the day, then you as a boss should be able to employ smokers etc who work for you and you should be able to put signs up that clearly demarcate the area as a smokers area.
As far as I know no privately owned business has ever been forced by law to allow smoking. Businesses have always been able to ban smoking within their establishments. Shouldn't a business that has an established clientele of smokers have some say in how he continues to operate his business?
In theory that seems fine, but not so long ago a woman was awarded a huge payout off a club in Sydney,after contracting cancer through working in a heavy smoke environment over a period of 20 or so years. You would think that since the 80's noone would have been ignorant of the dangers of either being exposed directly or indirectly to smoking. It seems that clubs would rather ban smoking, than demand the right to allow it for fear that a possible future suit may include in its argument that the person employed in a smoking area although signing up for it willingly could not be considered to have made a rational choice. Because of immediate concerns of earning a quid they may have signed away their employers culpability based on an immature appreciation of the full extent of the horrors of developing a cancer. The employer therefore should not be allowed to indemnify itself from any litigation for in providing an environmnet that is toxic to a persons respiratory health, they are actively aiding and abetting the detriment of the workers health and on a purely OH&S standpoint, it would probably skirt the legality of their business licence.
Ultimately its our litiguous society that is to blame.
Personally, I smoked for 20 years, a pack and a half a day of Marlbro reds, knowing the risks and enjoying it for the most part. I used to love a smoke after a meal and for some reason what used to be a satisfying conclusion became a dissatisfying end as the feelings of being satisfied would usually evaporate after the smoke. An ever widening chasm developed between that brilliant smell of a lit smoke and the actual experience of smoking it. I got sick of feeling sick after a smoke and apart of the smell in the air which I still think is one of the nicest smells you can sense, the knowledge of how I feel after was the impulse to quit. If you dont get to that point, I dont think you would ever find it easy to give it away. Its not only the nicotine that is addictive btw. Phillip Morris are known to lace their ciggies with additives as diverse as chocolate to give it a taste, so sometimes the automatic reaching for a packet is much like having a sweet to nibble. I was lucky when I gave up, I had smoked an under the counter tobacco that some farmers get around in this country as a cash crop because they avoid all the excise and taxes. If you have ever smoked it you would know that they require a constant pufing to keep alight as they contain none of the sulphur that make your typical smoke burn out. Having smoked the natural stuff for about 3mnths I had reduced many of the cravings for smokes that are part and parcel of the additives.
When I smoked and even now that I dont I always felt that if the majority in a place were for it, then they should have it and should not be dictated to by the minority non smokers. I think a lot of the problem now is so many have given up that businesses are finding that by banning it many people who had stayed away for fear of taking it up again are willing to come back if the smell and ritual of it are removed from the main environment.
Originally posted by sasquatch672Well, SQ, I hope my smoking doesn't ruin your movie. The wind is out of the west so I suppose it could reach from Michigan to Pennsylvania.
Hank...first of all, it's not a 'resurant', like some kind of freaking dinosaur. It's a 'restaurant'. You've already provided a fine example of why people shouldn't give a goddamn what you think.
Second of all - one person smoking a cigarette can ruin a bar's air for the entire building. 'Smokers have rights' - non-freaking-smokers have the freaki ...[text shortened]... ere now, time to watch a movie, in un-smoke-polluted air. Bye now.
Originally posted by sasquatch672Most smokers are more relaxed and fun to drink beer with and shoot pool with. Most non-smokers I've met had a bug up their arse and the ones that really pissed me off were the hackers acting like they were dying when someone lit up 10 feet aways from them.
Hank...first of all, it's not a 'resurant', like some kind of freaking dinosaur. It's a 'restaurant'. You've already provided a fine example of why people shouldn't give a goddamn what you think.
Second of all - one person smoking a cigarette can ruin a bar's air for the entire building. 'Smokers have rights' - non-freaking-smokers have the freaki ...[text shortened]... ere now, time to watch a movie, in un-smoke-polluted air. Bye now.
Originally posted by kmax87Good post, kmax.
The argument seems logical, if you have a bussiness where smoking is the order of the day, then you as a boss should be able to employ smokers etc who work for you and you should be able to put signs up that clearly demarcate the area as a smokers area.
In theory that seems fine, but not so long ago a woman was awarded a huge payout off a club in Sydney,af ...[text shortened]... n are willing to come back if the smell and ritual of it are removed from the main environment.
Originally posted by DelmerThanks, I remember as a kid this guy who always used to walk past our house in the mornings smoking a pipe, and the smell of it was one of those intense memories that probably made it inevitable that I would smoke one day. If only you could have the experience without the risks or the feelings of nausea as your body kicks you for lack of oxygen.
Good post, kmax.
Originally posted by Delmerunfortunatlly many places are being forced to ban smoking through city county and state legislater.
As far as I know no privately owned business has ever been forced by law to allow smoking. Businesses have always been able to ban smoking within their establishments. Shouldn't a business that has an established clientele of smokers have some say in how he continues to operate his business?
Originally posted by XanthosNZwhy should anyone have to pay for their healthcare? I don't believe we should but if they want to smoke they should be allowed. but they should also pay for their own healthcare. They choose their lifestyle they should have to deal with any responsibilities that come with it.
Who pays for all the extra healthcare that people working in smoke-filled environments need?
Originally posted by Hank ReardenThe Government that's right (at least in any normal western country). And who should then get to make rules about limiting the manner in which employees are exposed to second hand smoke? That's right, the Government.
why should anyone have to pay for their healthcare? I don't believe we should but if they want to smoke they should be allowed. but they should also pay for their own healthcare. They choose their lifestyle they should have to deal with any responsibilities that come with it.
Originally posted by XanthosNZWe still live in a society where no one forces you to be in a particular job. Find another one. The job you have now is the best job you can possible have other wise you would have another one.
The Government that's right (at least in any normal western country). And who should then get to make rules about limiting the manner in which employees are exposed to second hand smoke? That's right, the Government.
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Originally posted by scottishinnzExactly, if you're doing something that is harmful to others then why should uou have the right to do it in public?
Non-smokers are in the majority. Why should the majority have their lives dictated to, and even finished early, by the minority of smokers?
Originally posted by Hank ReardenSo are you saying that non-smokers should just not take jobs that would expose them to second hand smoke? Because I'm willing to bet that 90% of the time that wouldn't be an option.
We still live in a society where no one forces you to be in a particular job. Find another one. The job you have now is the best job you can possible have other wise you would have another one.
Originally posted by cmsMasterHere are some statistics about second hand smoke:
100% if everybody used his theory...
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422
More people died from lung cancer caused by second hand smoke than were killed in 9-11 and ten times that many died from heart diseases caused by second hand smoke. This is in the US. This is not a couple here and there, this is tens of thousands. Doesn't that bother you, Delmer and the other smokers here? This is only the US. What about places like Japan where smoking is rampant?