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Debates Forum

  1. 05 Aug '09 18:18
    Why is the cancer death rate higher in Great Britain than the US?
    Could it have anything to do with the extended waiting and rationing of healthcare? Well done, dems… we’re on the way! All Hail 0bamacare!
    "The journal Lancet Oncology has reported that American cancer patients live longer than those anywhere else on the globe.
    "American women have a 63 percent chance of living at least five years after a cancer diagnosis, compared with 56 percent of women in Europe.
    "For American men, the numbers are even more dramatic. Sixty-six percent of American men live five years past a diagnosis of cancer, but only 47 percent of European men do. Of cancers that affect only women, the survival rate for uterine cancer is 5 percentage points higher in the U.S. than the European average, and 14 percent higher for breast cancer. Among cancers that affect only or primarily men, survival rates for prostate cancer are 28 percent higher in the U.S., and for bladder cancer, 15 percent higher.
    The British Health Service keeps costs down by rationing care through long waiting lists for service. The Manhattan Institute’s Dr. David Gratzer reports that an estimated 20 percent of British lung cancer patients considered curable when they were first placed on the waiting list for chemotherapy or radiation were incurable by the time they obtained treatment.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/06/12/are_we_scaremongers_96961.html

    Socialized medicine.
    - - -
    Be careful what you wish for…
  2. 05 Aug '09 18:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Why is the cancer death rate higher in Great Britain than the US?
    Could it have anything to do with the extended waiting and rationing of healthcare? Well done, dems… we’re on the way! All Hail 0bamacare!
    "The journal Lancet Oncology has reported that American cancer patients live longer than those anywhere else on the globe.
    "American women have a /are_we_scaremongers_96961.html

    Socialized medicine.
    - - -
    Be careful what you wish for…
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_compared#Canadian_health_care_in_comparison

    looks like universal healthcare is not so bad after all.
    you can't say the whole idea is bad simply because it didn't work in a few places.

    "For those people who would otherwise go without care, any quality care is an improvement."
  3. 05 Aug '09 18:55
    So maybe Britain's plan isn't the best.
    So what is the conservative plan for giving everyone access to healthcare?

    A solution to Britain's problem would be to increase the amount of chemo drugs or radiation doses so there'd be enough for everyone. Is there a free market way to make that happen?

    Or maybe everyone needing a major procedure needs to go to India where the healthcare is much much cheaper. I wouldn't be surprised if this does a lot over the next ten years to cut costs.
  4. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    05 Aug '09 19:02
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Why is the cancer death rate higher in Great Britain than the US?
    Could it have anything to do with the extended waiting and rationing of healthcare? Well done, dems… we’re on the way! All Hail 0bamacare!
    "The journal Lancet Oncology has reported that American cancer patients live longer than those anywhere else on the globe.
    "American women have a ...[text shortened]... /are_we_scaremongers_96961.html

    Socialized medicine.
    - - -
    Be careful what you wish for…
    Missing in all your impressive looking stats, is the fact that the average Brit has a longer life span than the average American by quite a few years...so why don't you tell the whole story on healthcare, rather than just the side of it you want people to see??
  5. 05 Aug '09 19:10 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by bill718
    Missing in all your impressive looking stats, is the fact that the average Brit has a longer life span than the average American by quite a few years...so why don't you tell the whole story on healthcare, rather than just the side of it you want people to see??
    Total Fail. A quick google shows the average life expectancy in Britain and America to be the same, 78 years overall.

    Any other statistics you want to try?

    Absolutely the worst attempt ever. Do a little checking before making claims that are soooooooo wrooooooong.
  6. 05 Aug '09 19:28
    Not so much wrong with British health care, except for the funding. UK health care spending per capita is one third of that of the US.
  7. 05 Aug '09 19:33
    http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20080716/cancer-survival-rates-vary-by-country

    France and Japan have similar cancer survival rates and have universal health care. And they pay half of what Americans do.
  8. 05 Aug '09 19:34
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

    Britain is slightly better than the US (78.70 vs 78.06), but they're essentially the same. But in between is that healthcare powerhouse Bosnia (78.17).

    among the major countries, the best are Japan (82.07), France (80.87), Switzerland (80.62), Sweden (80.62), Australia (80.62), and Canada (80.34).

    Maybe the US (and Britain) can learn something from what these countries are doing.
  9. 05 Aug '09 19:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20080716/cancer-survival-rates-vary-by-country

    France and Japan have similar cancer survival rates and have universal health care. And they pay half of what Americans do.
    France also has an average 50% personal income tax rate, with an average per capita income of about $27k. The US average per capita income is about $37k with an average personal income tax rate just under 30%. They're paying for it somehow.
  10. 05 Aug '09 20:00 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by SlyArmenian
    France also has an average 50% personal income tax rate, with an average per capita income of about $27k. The US average per capita income is about $37k with an average personal income tax rate just under 40%. They're paying for it somehow.
    That's because France has this thing called "social security".

    Anyways, Sweden also has good universal health care and a higher GDP per capita.
  11. 05 Aug '09 20:08
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    That's because France has this thing called "social security".

    Anyways, Sweden also has good universal health care and a higher GDP per capita.
    As opposed to American "Social Security"?
  12. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    05 Aug '09 20:12
    25% of all bankruptcies in the United States are because the person couldn't afford their medical bills.

    1 in 4.....


    Bring us your needy...just make sure they don't get sick.
  13. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    05 Aug '09 20:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by uzless
    25% of all bankruptcies in the United States are because the person couldn't afford their medical bills.

    1 in 4.....


    Bring us your needy...just make sure they don't get sick.
    Nobody ever said "bring us your needy." What the poem says is bring us "your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." The assumption is that the huddled masses will work to improve our society once they get here and become free.

    No one ever said "bring us you needy people who are already free so they can get handouts." I believe the appropriate line instead is "Feed your own needy."
  14. 05 Aug '09 20:19
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    That's because France has this thing called "social security".

    Anyways, Sweden also has good universal health care and a higher GDP per capita.
    Sweden's national per capita income is lower than France's and still has a tax rate of about 48%, although their corporate taxes are just under 30%.

    Interestingly enough, Japan has a slightly lower average personal tax rate than Americans, at about 27%.
  15. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    05 Aug '09 20:30 / 3 edits
    I recently visited the united states...various states on a lengthy trip. The thing that stood out the most to me was the amount of elderly people that had jobs. Not good jobs. Cashiers mostly. Cashiers in dollars stores, clothing stores, hell even a liquor store. Finally, I asked a very old lady in San Diego, California (who had to be in her 90's) why she was working as a cashier in a tourist trap store in the old historical section of San Diego. I thought perhaps it was her own store. Instead, she slowly looked up at me with tired, lifeless eyes and just pointed with her bony shaking fingers to an IV drip that she had tucked behind the cash register. "Bills sonny" was all she could muster in a low coughing grandma voice.

    I felt horrible. I bought my 1 dollar fridge magnet, gave her a $20 bill and told her to keep the change. She reached out, put her hand on mine and with a quiet "Bless you, son" moved on to ring in the next person's insignificant novelty item.

    I walked out of the store wondering why this nice sick elderly person had to drag herself every day to a dollar store just to be able to pay for her medication. She was just one example. It was like that state after state after state.

    The US system may provide good treatment, just make sure your wallet is full.